Join us as we unravel the epic two-part finale of "Lost" season two, "Live Together, Die Alone." Ever wondered why some "Lost" characters are ranked controversially? We passionately defend Boone's significant impact, talk about Claire's wasted potential, and critique the abrupt departure of Shannon. Michael's complex character arc, influenced by personal experiences and controversial actions, is rigorously analyzed. The rankings of fan-favourites like Jack, Kate, Sayid, Sun, Jin, Charlie, Hurley, and Sawyer are debated, examining their growth and missteps and their lasting influence on the series.
Desmond’s emotional journey takes center stage as we explore his pivotal moments and the butterfly effect leading to the plane crash. From Desmond’s boat discovery to the chaos in the hatch, we dissect intense scenes and character motivations. The deception by Ben and Michael, Jack's unwavering determination, and the unforgettable moment when Desmond activates the fail-safe are all scrutinized. With each revelation, we delve into how these events shaped the island's fate, leaving us eagerly anticipating the next season's mysteries. Listen in for a thoughtful and spirited analysis of one of TV's most iconic season finales.
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Speaker 1: we're three best friends and we love lost.
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We love talking, but even more so we love talking about lost.
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So join us for some laughs, good conversation and let's get
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lost together.
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Speaker 2: Hello everybody, Welcome to this week's episode
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of let's Get Lost.
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I'm your co-host, Amanda, and I'm here with my dear friends
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Kip.
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Speaker 1: Hello.
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Speaker 2: And Teresa Hi, and we are so excited because we are
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talking about not one but two episodes today.
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We are going to combine the epic two-part season two finale,
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live Together, die Alone into one supersized episode for you
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all, because there is really no talking about one part without
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talking about the other, so we're not even going to try.
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Speaker 1: No, no, no point.
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It's basically one episode.
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Yeah, essentially, try, yeah, no, no point.
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It's basically one episode.
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Yeah, essentially.
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I mean, if it's part one, part two, yeah, exactly so and
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although we won't, we don't always do.
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Speaker 2: The part one.
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Speaker 1: Part two is one episode, this one in particular,
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like it really like, is one it is, and I was reading it was
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like um, it aired together, obviously, but then the only
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time that they've released it as one full episode without a
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break is on the season two dvd, not the blu-ray, which is what
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we just watched.
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Oh, but like, and only in america weird and disney plus on
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hulu, on netflix.
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Wherever else they've streamed it, it's always been broken up
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into two episodes, and on the Blu-rays and DVDs around the
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rest of the world it's broken up , but on the season two DVD for
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America only, they get it as one episode and apparently there
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was like a few extra little scenes that are included in that
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.
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Speaker 2: That aren't included, I know but it does make sense
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that it's one episode, because it's also one flashback exactly,
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and we get the flashback of desmond, which is so great, and
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we're going to talk about all this.
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But because it is our season two finale, we thought we'd also
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talk about just a few other fun things before we get into the
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episode, because you know, at the end of the day, when you I
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don't know about everyone else, but when we're doing finales I
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start to think back and get a little nostalgic for the season
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and kind of everything like that .
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So we're going to talk about kind of lots of things and a few
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higher level thoughts too, on just how the season has shaped
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up before we finish off and move on to season three.
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Speaker 1: So, before we even get into that, I just wanted to
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bring up just like it's so weird to me.
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I mean, I guess it's really not that weird because, like Lost,
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has a lot of actors.
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Correct and so I've just been watching a lot of other TV right
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now and there's been a lot of other Lost actors popping up.
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It seems like more than normal, but like really good TV.
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So like we just finished Shogun , which has two Lost actors
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unfortunately not yet seen in these seasons one doesn't come
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till season six and the other one comes.
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Speaker 2: I think it might even be next season.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, so like it's been really good.
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And what else did I just watch that had a lost actor in it?
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I can't remember, but it was just interesting to me.
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I started thinking about how these shows are so good.
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But they're just that streaming 10 episode arcs and it kind of
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made me just like, as we're rewatching Lost.
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It made me just appreciate some of these like quote unquote
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filler episodes a little bit more.
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Like you, just sort of get to take a breather every once in a
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while with a show like Lost in the long seasons and it's just
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like it was refreshing to be watching Lost and thinking you
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don't get that nowadays.
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You don't get to just see these random sort of just character
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episodes for the sake of character episodes, because they
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had an allotment to film.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, and like there's so many like such good
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acting Right, yeah, and like there's so many like such good
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acting right, and it's so nice that those actors, especially
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the ones that, like you know, 20 years ago they kind of had
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these like smaller parts on this show and kind of seeing them
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kind of move throughout their career into like bigger and
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bigger roles, like but like that's happened like throughout,
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like even ian somerhalder going from being boone to like
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clearly boone the role of Boone helped him, I'm sure, secure the
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vampire diaries yeah, he was a star and you know just seeing
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Jin move into like Hawaii Five-0 , and just you know it was
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Fallout, and Michael Emerson is in Fallout who plays Fenry.
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Yeah, oh, is he so good, he's so good, it's like a pretty big
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role.
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Yes and no.
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Okay, I'm so excited I got to watch it.
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Speaker 1: No, he, I would say, his role is is big in a non
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unexpected way.
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He's so good at it though.
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Speaker 3: And Fallout was a great that's on my list Prime oh
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, we got to watch that.
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I love that game I gotta watch that.
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Speaker 2: I love that game and.
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Speaker 1: Shogun is really good .
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Speaker 2: Okay, we gotta watch all these things.
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And Jin was in Avatar right Like not too too long ago, yeah,
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he was, and another actor was too, which one.
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We haven't seen them yet.
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That's okay, no one will know.
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Speaker 1: What was the actor's name?
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Speaker 2: I don't know.
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Speaker 4: Who did they play?
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It doesn't matter.
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The trio of, like charlotte, uh oh, max is it max?
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Speaker 2: who's max?
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Speaker 4: no, it's not daniel faraday it's not.
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It's not faraday, it's the.
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It's the asian one max.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it's not max his name's not max miles,
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miles, miles is an avatar oh, okay, okay.
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Speaker 2: Well, first of all, like two really great asian
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actors though and then also shogun has.
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Speaker 1: shogun has a guy who plays Dogen.
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Yeah, I don't remember the actor's name.
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Speaker 2: But he's also Asian.
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So it's good to see like just also some good like roles for
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Asian American actors as well.
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Yeah, but yeah, no, it's so crazy, Like to just still see
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them kind of pop up and stuff.
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And you know, it's probably also a little bit hard for them
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because even when we see them pop up we're like, oh, they're
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from lost yeah, exactly, and they're probably like yeah, that
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was one show yeah we're more than lost and they are, and
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they're so like.
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Like you said, my glamour seems so good in it, like I just
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believe that without having even watched it, because he's so
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good and lock is on um the new walking dead oh yeah yeah,
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that's right.
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Terry O'Quinn.
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Yeah, so everyone is just and like they did such varied stuff
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Like Ian Somerhalder, going on to like a teen show didn't shock
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me that much?
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No, because he's obviously like teen heartthrob material yeah,
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exactly.
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But even like the actor who played Desmond went on to the
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100 at one point.
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Speaker 4: Oh, really yeah.
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Speaker 2: That was a good in that too.
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Speaker 4: You know, it's just like they're all capable of such
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varied types of roles and it's really cool to see and I know
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you don't like her but evangeline lilly joining the mcu
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.
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Okay, first of all, I don't fucking huge I don't dislike
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evangeline lilly.
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Speaker 2: I did not care for her take on the pandemic and
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vaccination oh, yeah, no having seen more of her like posting as
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of late, I think she's just a hippie and very like she's very
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free, yeah, like very like it is , what it is like live your life
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type stuff.
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So I'm trying to understand it a bit more.
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So I don't really have an issue with her.
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We and we know how I feel about kate, but evangeline lily yeah,
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mcu that's pretty, that's huge.
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But even like she, went on to like the hobbit, which was like
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her first and like that's a really big fandom too, like yeah
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, evangeline lily's probably.
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Like can't go very many places without being attacked by one
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super fandom or the other, like no kidding, mcu, lord of the
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rings or the hobbit, like yeah, that's true.
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Big ones, all the big ones.
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Speaker 1: She must be a staple at Comic-Cons and stuff.
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Speaker 2: Oh, for sure, and she does seem to really.
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She's posted being at the, because today also, weirdly, is
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the 20th anniversary concert in Hawaii.
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Speaker 1: Which you know, just due to scheduling conflicts, we
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couldn't make it, unfortunately.
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Speaker 2: It's a really good friend of ours' birthday tonight
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, so we obviously couldn't miss it for miss that.
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I mean, we really wanted to be there.
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They would have loved to have us, I'm sure.
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Speaker 1: But like she's there, she's posting about that like
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it's so nice to see like they're moving on to stuff, but they're
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also still they still appreciate loss and what it was,
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and I think that's so cool to see because's like it makes you
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as a fan, feel even more hyped up about it Cause you feel like
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you, we've invested time and emotions into the show and to
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see that the creators and the actors who are in it also still
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appreciate it and respect it.
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Speaker 4: It's just, it feels good as a fan.
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Oh yeah, a hundred percent.
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Speaker 2: And you know, I think , where you are getting a lot
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more.
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You know, obviously we interviewed the director and
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producer of the Getting Lost documentary coming out.
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It's a big year 20th anniversary of the show
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premiering.
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It's going to be back in the media a lot for that.
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But it is just funny to see like even 20 years later there's
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still so much like like consume , and so one of those things is
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that um screen rant posted a few days ago a ranking of the worst
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to best characters for lost 17 main lost tv show characters
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ranked worst to best, and so kip shared it in our our let's get
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lost group chat and what was my caption?
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this is his caption was this list is bs so obviously the
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debate you know, my feelings and we, we wanted to bring it to
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the masses because it is, uh, it's, it's divisive for sure.
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Um, so it has seven.
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First of all, I think even who they included versus who they
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didn't include is kind of interesting.
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Speaker 1: Um, because it doesn't have anna, lucia or
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libby or echo, but it does have boone and walt and shannon, and
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I think that they probably had about the same amount of screen
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time yeah, as anna, lucia and echo at least, maybe not libby
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but like boone he wasn't, like he was season one but like he
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wasn't in it for the whole season he got killed off with a
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few episodes left yeah, so it's not like he was in from start to
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finish, and it is interesting how they completely disregard
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the season two editions so, but they but.
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Speaker 2: And then someone might argue oh well, maybe they
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just did it off the season one cast.
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Well, they didn't, because we're going to include a few
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other people in there.
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So we thought we'd talk about it, just because it is season
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two and, like I said, we're doing some reflecting back and
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it's BS according to your, your favorite, I have to agree as
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well.
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So we'll just go through it quickly.
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It starts with number 17 being Boone, and I think that's a
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little bit ridiculous.
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Bo, fabulous boone.
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The other thing is they're kind of bold a few things.
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Um, so essentially, it sounds like they have an issue with the
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fact that he, like it, was very predictable and that he didn't
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have a lasting effect on the series.
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I know we try to avoid spoilers , I'm not going to spoil the
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ending of the show, but I think that that's wrong, like to say
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he doesn't have an effect on the show, not like we.
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Speaker 1: It's not a spoiler, because even in this season, two
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finale Boone is.
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Brought up and his death has ramifications and it's brought
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up, so that's total bullshit to say that he has no emphasis or
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impact on the rest of the show.
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Speaker 2: And it starts out by saying Boone's short-lived
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presence on Lost is a clear indication of his lack of depth
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and significance to the overall narrative.
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I completely disagree with that .
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First of of all, he was the first major death and even if
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you take the effect that death had on jack, and what the effect
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it clearly like everything it's .
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It's a good time to get and reflect on everything because,
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we do talk about boone in this episode and clearly his death
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has affected lock even, and it it's funny because I think I
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said in the past too, I don't feel like Locke cared enough
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about Boone's death, but it's very clear that this is like
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it's beginning to come out.
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He's starting to feel a lot of guilt of, like my faith is the
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reason someone's dead.
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Speaker 1: It's costing Exactly and that comes out in the finale
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of season two.
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Yeah, big time.
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Speaker 2: So that's very interesting.
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It says forgettable nature and absence of meaningful growth
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make him a prime candidate for the bottom of the rankings.
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I just I disagree.
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Speaker 1: His, his presence is still felt, and ian summerhalter
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did a great job and he wasn't forgettable at all.
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No, no, we're still talking about him a whole season after
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he's dead okay, 16 that one's not the worst no that one I kind
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of agree with claire littleton yeah I without like only coming
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at it from the end of season two , very other than bringing a
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baby onto the island like giving birth like, the impact is very
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small yeah.
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Speaker 2: And the kind of bolded thing they highlight here
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is that the writer seemed to struggle with finding consistent
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and compelling direction for her character and that I would
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agree with that.
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And that's going to keep.
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Yeah, for her character and that I would agree with that and
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that's gonna keep, yeah, yeah, I do agree.
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Speaker 1: Like I said, I actually don't totally disagree
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with this one.
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And at the end here, the character with wasted potential.
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Speaker 2: I also agree with that yeah, I don't think they
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did know what to do with claire, and she's a good actress, like
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those scenes that, like the maternity leave episode that
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we've talked about this season, we've already seen like she she
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can act.
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Speaker 1: It's just and of the main cast, she is one of the
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ones that you barely see like she's barely a presence in any
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episode, unless, like she's like really in it or it has and
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there's not even though the course of the six seasons
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there's not a lot of claire-centric episodes, handful
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maybe so you know what I have to say.
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Speaker 2: She probably fits there.
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Next is shannon.
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Um, and again they kind of say her limited screen time, an
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abrupt departure limit, the potential for growth.
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We've also talked.
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She died this season.
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So we've had a lot of talk about shannon.
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We just started to get some depth and weight to her
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character's presence and then it sucked, it was literally
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episode where you start to like want to root for shannon and
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then they kill her off.
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Speaker 1: So I I kind of agree like, yeah, the abrupt departure
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left potential for growth yeah tracer, why don't you read
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number 14?
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Speaker 4: so number 14 should actually be number whatever, the
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lowest number you can possibly think of including all extras
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everyone.
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We're talking about the guy that blew himself up.
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We're talking about scott.
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We're talking about steve.
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We're talking about joanna, who died in the first few episodes.
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Speaker 2: Talking about all of them, they all go above this
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person Michael Dawson and you know what I have to just say um,
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they, they talk a little about um.
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Speaker 1: I just read their bolded thing.
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Yeah, michael's journey.
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Speaker 4: I'll read it because I can say it without wanting to
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punch myself in the face.
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I can't read it without punching myself in the face.
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Speaker 1: It says michael's journey is not without moments
00:14:32
of redemption there is very limited redemption for me well I
00:14:35
will say.
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Speaker 2: The only thing I'll say is that, um, I did kind of
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get a different view in reading this, because they do kind of
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talk about how the actor's real life experiences and concerns
00:14:47
regarding the portrayal of a black father's response to his
00:14:49
missing child added depth to the character and that he wanted he
00:14:55
said I don't think I can do that, uh, when it came to, uh,
00:14:59
only inquiring about his missing son once, um, nobody, nobody.
00:15:03
He didn't want to perpetuate, perpetuate the harmful narrative
00:15:05
that nobody cares about black boys, even black fathers.
00:15:08
And I do like that part.
00:15:09
I appreciate same and the idea, and I had read somewhere else
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that there's a little bit of like racism built into some
00:15:17
people's dislike of michael, and so that that's challenging,
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because I love the idea of showing a narrative of a strong
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black man looking for his son.
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Speaker 4: There's like that's great.
00:15:31
Speaker 2: I'm not sure that's the issue many people have with
00:15:34
Michael and this idea of these redemption points.
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It's like again having just ended on the episode we ended on
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.
00:15:39
I don't know what you can possibly say is redeeming about
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that.
00:15:42
You can even see on Walt's face at the end that Walt is not
00:15:46
okay with what.
00:15:47
Speaker 4: Michael's done.
00:15:48
Yeah, some that like he.
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He looks like I'm just a pawn in this, like I get that I'm
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saved, I'm with my dad, but like , at what cost?
00:15:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I mean like .
00:15:57
So in no way is it a critique of Harold Perrin.
00:15:59
No, no, because he's gone on to do more shows that are amazing,
00:16:04
like From just aired, which got rave reviews and.
00:16:06
I think that was even.
00:16:07
It was either a Lindelof or a Cuse show.
00:16:09
So like they work together.
00:16:13
Speaker 2: He had a somewhat lengthy arc on the Rookie and
00:16:17
like the acting was super good on that, like he's a great
00:16:20
person.
00:16:21
Speaker 1: And so like.
00:16:21
But yeah, I just like, I feel like the character of.
00:16:25
Michael was just so.
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It was too much it was so undeveloped Like it was.
00:16:32
So one note.
00:16:34
Speaker 2: The idea of like a man fighting for his son.
00:16:37
I love that idea and I think there were ways to do it Like
00:16:43
Talking in character, like I think there was ways for Michael
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yeah, not necessarily the writers, because I think they
00:16:45
actually ways to do it like talking in character.
00:16:46
Like I think there was ways for Michael not necessarily the
00:16:47
writers, because I think they actually did a good storyline,
00:16:50
but there were ways for Michael to have like fixed that without,
00:16:56
I think, causing as much havoc as he did.
00:17:00
Speaker 1: Isn't that the reflection of the writers?
00:17:01
Because who creates those stories?
00:17:03
Speaker 2: yeah, but yeah, but I like, if we're like, clearly
00:17:06
that's the story they wanted to tell Like I mean like I think
00:17:08
there were other ways it could have gone but, they wanted to
00:17:11
paint him in this light.
00:17:12
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:17:13
Speaker 2: And I just I think that if the idea was that we're
00:17:17
supposed to show a man willing to do anything to get back his
00:17:19
son, I, just as a viewer, don't enjoy that meaning causing
00:17:26
violence and havoc and harm to other people.
00:17:28
Speaker 1: No, as a viewer the trajectory that they took it
00:17:30
down just didn't really work.
00:17:33
It just made everybody hate him Literally, I do love.
00:17:36
Speaker 2: And the thing is, what I loved about where it
00:17:38
started was this idea of like a man who was separated from his
00:17:42
son and then did step up to to take him on and was doing
00:17:46
everything, and I just would have hoped that that could have
00:17:51
resolved in a more positive way yeah, like in season one, even
00:17:55
just some of the michael learning how to be a dad was
00:17:59
actually quite compelling like seeing to he'd lost walt so soon
00:18:04
as a father and relearning how to be a dad like that was
00:18:08
compelling.
00:18:08
Speaker 4: Until Walt got taken, which was a crazy shocking
00:18:12
moment for the show totally but like it didn't do Mike, it just
00:18:15
turned Michael into just this one note character and kind of a
00:18:18
monster, yeah, and I think like because, as the resident
00:18:23
Michael hater and someone like I've said many a time, I have my
00:18:27
own daddy issues, which is why I have such a problem with
00:18:29
Michael, because it's my own bias I think I would have liked
00:18:33
to see him become a better father before Walt got taken,
00:18:39
because then it doesn't seem like he's just trying to get him
00:18:43
back for the sake of getting him back.
00:18:45
I would have wanted to see their relationship develop a
00:18:48
little bit more and see Michael grow as a person, as opposed to
00:18:52
us getting angry Michael, upset Michael, desperate Michael.
00:18:56
I would have liked to see happy dad Michael, At least for a
00:19:02
moment.
00:19:03
Speaker 1: Well, I think there was like one or two moments,
00:19:05
maybe one, where, like you, could see him and walt bonding.
00:19:08
I'm thinking specifically when they talked about how walt said
00:19:13
why didn't you ever write me?
00:19:14
And he's actually tells him the truth.
00:19:15
I did write oh, yeah, all these letters and actually to have
00:19:18
some nice bonding moments, but like it was so minimal, like we
00:19:22
did.
00:19:22
Speaker 4: We just needed like a bit more, I agree, to get us to
00:19:25
feel something more positive toward Michael.
00:19:28
Speaker 2: And this goes on to say that Michael's arc
00:19:29
highlights the show's struggle to sensitively address issues of
00:19:32
race and parental responsibility.
00:19:33
Despite the challenges faced both on screen and behind the
00:19:35
scenes, michael's story serves as a thought-provoking
00:19:37
exploration of the lengths a father will go to depract his
00:19:39
child.
00:19:40
Now again, I don't disagree that there were struggles to
00:19:47
sensitively address that, but I think they started very strong
00:19:50
in addressing that.
00:19:51
Like I said, I love the idea that, like you know, we see that
00:19:54
a lot of why michael wasn't in walt's life was nothing to do
00:19:58
with choice or it wasn't that he wished to abandon his child
00:20:01
exactly it was circumstance, and then his ex partner and you
00:20:05
know all that stuff.
00:20:06
So I loved those episodes and I love the idea of him never
00:20:09
giving up, like I think that was such a brilliant way to do it
00:20:12
but and I love the idea of telling a story of that.
00:20:15
But again, it's just, it's very hard to find anything redeeming
00:20:19
in in the last little bit.
00:20:21
So I think michael honestly should also be at the end of
00:20:24
this list.
00:20:26
Speaker 1: But it's interesting how it leads to number 13, which
00:20:29
is Walt.
00:20:30
We like Walt slightly better than we like.
00:20:37
I mean, I guess I feel kind of weird having Walt on any list of
00:20:40
characters.
00:20:40
Like I get, he's a character, but he's a child.
00:20:44
He's a child and his character doesn't really make any
00:20:48
independent decisions, or do anything for himself like.
00:20:51
So it's hard to rank him next to all these other characters who
00:20:54
are, you know, adults who make choices and decisions that
00:20:58
impact everyone else around them yeah, he's like a pawn in it
00:21:02
and like he's just kind of being moved around the board kind of
00:21:05
thing.
00:21:06
Speaker 2: And his like again, like it's.
00:21:08
I don't think it's crazy to think you will hear about
00:21:10
Michael and Walt again after this episode and just like even
00:21:13
his like trajectory is kind of like you know, and I get there's
00:21:17
probably stuff off screen that we couldn't deal with, but I
00:21:19
just again, if they're talking about how Kate or Kate, sorry,
00:21:22
Claire and Boone and Shannon all had this like wasted potential,
00:21:25
it's like that is a character.
00:21:27
Speaker 1: They didn't know what to do with Walt.
00:21:29
Speaker 4: And I mean I think they also had the hard, the
00:21:31
problem of you have someone who's clearly growing up on a
00:21:36
show that you take day to day Like he looks way old and like
00:21:42
you can't age him up.
00:21:44
Speaker 1: But to me that's like such a failure of the actual
00:21:46
creators.
00:21:47
It's like they had an idea of where this was going to go.
00:21:50
Why include?
00:21:51
A child like yeah, that seems so short-sighted.
00:21:55
Like make him a teenager, then yeah exactly, yeah, like make
00:21:59
him.
00:21:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree because it's like you're you've moved a
00:22:02
show 66 days.
00:22:05
Speaker 4: In two seasons In two seasons.
00:22:07
Speaker 2: But you put at least with Aaron.
00:22:08
They can keep recasting a baby.
00:22:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.
00:22:11
Speaker 4: And even we had a problem in the beginning when
00:22:14
they were a six day old as a six month old.
00:22:18
Speaker 1: Okay, now for the biggest upset Now.
00:22:19
Speaker 2: this is where it fucking falls apart and why this
00:22:21
list is BS.
00:22:22
Speaker 1: Number 12.
00:22:24
Speaker 2: Fucking Jack Shepard yeah he should be top five for
00:22:27
sure.
00:22:27
Top three.
00:22:28
Easily 100%.
00:22:30
I can see if we're doing like an overarching not everyone, but
00:22:33
top five.
00:22:34
There's no way we're going to hear a few more names, obviously
00:22:38
, that you haven't heard yet.
00:22:39
There's no way.
00:22:39
No, and they even said like so for him.
00:22:42
They say Jack's skepticism and reluctance to believe in the
00:22:45
island's supernatural elements, particularly in contrast to
00:22:47
characters like John Locke, occasionally hinders growth and
00:22:50
understanding.
00:22:52
Speaker 1: That's the character, but that's exactly and like if
00:22:54
this is supposed to be a list of , like the whole six seasons,
00:22:57
like did they only look at season one, jack?
00:23:00
Yeah, that doesn't make any sense, because he has an entire
00:23:03
arc ahead of him.
00:23:04
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:23:04
Speaker 1: Right, and it's just like oh yeah, and that's the
00:23:07
character like.
00:23:08
Speaker 2: The whole idea is that there that is, like with
00:23:11
every, all the pressures he faces and being leader like we,
00:23:14
there's things he does that we don't like.
00:23:15
We talk about that all the time .
00:23:16
But to suggest that, like they even say in this, like he's the
00:23:19
main character at the end of the day, like he's the main
00:23:20
character, we all accept that, right, he shouldn't be this low.
00:23:24
Speaker 4: Like he carries the show exactly he can't be this
00:23:27
low.
00:23:27
Speaker 2: This doesn't make sense, like he is beautiful and
00:23:33
does have depth and, like his not believing, we're supposed to
00:23:38
we're.
00:23:39
We're supposed to do that journey with him exactly right,
00:23:42
and we do, yeah, exactly right.
00:23:43
So I I really think that that was.
00:23:45
You know, and I don't even take issue with the fact that it's
00:23:48
because the next one is above him, because I actually think
00:23:51
this character is too low on this list, kate kate, yeah, also
00:23:55
too low I don't like her and I think she's too low on a list
00:24:00
generated by like, like an overarching look at it.
00:24:03
Yeah, I personally don't like kate as a human.
00:24:05
I don't like what she's done, but she should be higher on this
00:24:08
list because she does have um, first of all, evangeline lily is
00:24:13
a phenomenal actress.
00:24:14
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, like I will, yeah, and it always is amazing
00:24:17
to me that this was her first acting job what yeah, because
00:24:20
she actually does well, if you don't include the lavaliteite.
00:24:24
Oh Lavellix.
00:24:25
Lavellix commercials.
00:24:26
This was her first real major acting job oh good for her.
00:24:29
She's phenomenal.
00:24:32
Speaker 2: But I do like what they say here, because this
00:24:33
literally, finally, I think, says what I've been trying to
00:24:36
say, although obviously, for entertainment value I exaggerate
00:24:39
sometimes, but this is actually how I feel.
00:24:41
Kate is a character that is often marked by her manipulative
00:24:43
tendencies and a penchant for using others to achieve her
00:24:46
goals.
00:24:46
This aspect of her personality can be off-putting and makes it
00:24:49
challenging to fully empathize with her.
00:24:51
That is the reality of it.
00:24:53
She is manipulative, she does use others and it is hard to
00:24:56
fully love her for that reason.
00:24:58
But I mean she does a lot of good and she, like I don't know,
00:25:04
I um, but I mean she does a lot of good and she like I don't
00:25:07
know.
00:25:07
Speaker 4: I just find it weird.
00:25:08
I would have thought she would have been higher, I think.
00:25:09
What confuses me is so she's number 11, and at the end of
00:25:12
this thing it says while her actions may not always be
00:25:14
likable, kate's journey is a valuable part of the show, so
00:25:17
they can admit that.
00:25:18
So why is she so low?
00:25:19
Speaker 2: you're telling me that the, the top 10, their
00:25:23
journeys, are more valuable well , I think, honestly, I think
00:25:27
what we're going to see a little bit more, is they like well, it
00:25:30
doesn't make sense because the next person is saeed and again
00:25:36
we don't want to do too many further alerts, but saeed's
00:25:40
journey is actually quite different, in the sense that he
00:25:43
probably goes from being as likable as he ever is ever going
00:25:48
to be right now Right, and so essentially Saeed's character
00:25:54
diminishes over time, whereas I think Kate Jack Shannon, like
00:26:00
whatever, these other characters .
00:26:02
They all grow.
00:26:03
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:26:03
I don't think saeed has um I think that's another character
00:26:09
that they struggled to give him a very valuable character arc
00:26:14
and good depth, because he does.
00:26:16
Yeah, I don't.
00:26:17
I feel like they didn't really quite know what to do with him
00:26:19
after this next season and we're trying to keep it kind of
00:26:24
spoiler free here, so it's hard to go too far.
00:26:27
Speaker 2: It's fine to talk about more generous.
00:26:28
The next one is Sun, who is probably way too low for
00:26:31
Teresa's liking and doesn't even have a bolded aspect of her
00:26:34
Right up, but they just talk about her growth.
00:26:37
I mean, she does, she does grow .
00:26:39
There's a lot.
00:26:40
I think Sun should be higher, right I.
00:26:45
I think son should be higher, right.
00:26:46
Speaker 4: I think overall, what we're seeing with this show is
00:26:48
after you hit like the.
00:26:48
Speaker 2: Michael of it all.
00:26:49
It's really just a race to the bottom right because, like I
00:26:50
think, they're not even saying that many negative things about
00:26:53
each character.
00:26:54
But I just, you know, locke, I don't think.
00:26:58
I think, john, I think on most lists Jack and Locke should
00:27:01
probably be a little bit closer together.
00:27:03
Speaker 1: They're kind of two sides of the same coin and it's
00:27:05
funny because then comes john lock at number eight like he's
00:27:09
not even included in the top five yeah, see, that's not right
00:27:12
yeah I mean and he remains a compelling character.
00:27:16
Speaker 2: Uh, his obsession with the island's mysteries
00:27:18
often leads him to prioritize his own interest over the
00:27:20
well-being of the fellow survivors, and his single-minded
00:27:22
pursuit of the island secrets can be seen as a flaw.
00:27:25
So, yes, so we're saying that jack's lack of faith is his flaw
00:27:30
and lock's abundance of faith is his but yet somehow that
00:27:34
ranks way higher yeah, and also it's like you want jack to have
00:27:37
more faith and lock to have less , but the opposite is what it
00:27:41
just sounds like you want everyone to be very balanced and
00:27:43
that's not life, and I think, at the end of the day, what
00:27:45
anyone who's watched, lost or not watched, lost or heard of
00:27:47
loss is the reason we see these flashbacks the way they are, the
00:27:50
way the reason we see these characters where they are, is
00:27:53
they're flawed.
00:27:54
They're flawed, and they're here for that reason, exactly
00:27:56
right and so to point out all of their flaws as being why
00:28:00
they're low on the list.
00:28:01
Speaker 4: It's like that's why we have a show exactly and
00:28:04
that's part of why we like these characters so much like.
00:28:06
A big part of the show is the character growth and sometimes
00:28:09
their downfalls a hundred percent.
00:28:12
Speaker 1: The next up is jinn.
00:28:13
I mean, I think that's a pretty good ranking for jinn yeah I.
00:28:18
He could even be a bit higher in my books, but I really like
00:28:21
where he goes over the next few seasons the first couple, couple
00:28:24
of seasons for me, Jen like we've talked about how their
00:28:28
relationship can be a little toxic.
00:28:30
Toxic sometimes, which is true, but Jen sort of seems to have
00:28:33
these moments that people really love.
00:28:35
Then the next one is someone we don't know yet.
00:28:39
Should we talk about it or just skip it?
00:28:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I think we can just kind of say first of
00:28:43
all, they're going to see her in an episode.
00:28:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true, she's coming up.
00:28:48
We won't talk too much about why she is where she is.
00:28:51
Speaker 2: But you're about to meet number six of the list,
00:28:54
juliette Burke.
00:28:55
Oh, juliette.
00:28:56
Speaker 1: Portrayed by Elizabeth Mitchell.
00:28:58
Speaker 2: I'll tell you right now.
00:28:58
I also think this is way too low.
00:29:00
Way too low.
00:29:01
Way too low 100.
00:29:01
I think she should also be in the top five, at the very least.
00:29:04
Yeah, uh, we won't tell you too much about her, but the bold on
00:29:07
this.
00:29:08
Speaker 4: Oh, I just like the number five anyway let's get
00:29:13
right all those days.
00:29:14
Speaker 2: The bold on this is juliet's inherent goodness and
00:29:15
strength shine through.
00:29:16
That is true.
00:29:18
That's all we'll say about that the fact that we have to shift,
00:29:21
and then, once you know juliet if you don't know who we're
00:29:23
talking about first of all, she's an angel baby.
00:29:24
The fact that we now have to jump from talking about juliet
00:29:28
burke to number five is a sin absolutely number five is again
00:29:33
why this list?
00:29:33
Can we just switch him and jack ?
00:29:35
Yeah if we switch him and jack I'm okay with this.
00:29:37
Speaker 1: Then it is immediately makes a little more
00:29:39
sense, but charlie number five makes.
00:29:42
Speaker 4: Chris hopgood is sitting here, like I told you
00:29:44
guys.
00:29:44
Actually can you?
00:29:45
Speaker 2: do the accent what Chris would be like.
00:29:47
I told you so.
00:29:48
Speaker 4: I told you guys yeah, there you go.
00:29:51
Speaker 2: That's what he's saying to us right now it just
00:29:53
like.
00:29:53
Speaker 1: It makes no sense.
00:29:54
Like what do they say?
00:29:55
Charlie's relationship with Claire is bond with her baby
00:29:57
Aaron serve as a catalyst for his growth.
00:30:00
Speaker 2: But he doesn't grow.
00:30:00
And just stealing the baby and trying to force religion on it
00:30:03
yeah, stealing babies apparently is part of that growth.
00:30:05
Oh man, yeah, this is again why the list falls apart.
00:30:08
Honestly, it could be fixed by just switching him and Jack.
00:30:11
Speaker 1: And we can't say why.
00:30:13
But the final sentence like that is a huge spoiler is why
00:30:18
they've put him so high.
00:30:18
I don't agree with it at all.
00:30:19
I agree with you there, but they're looking at it in one
00:30:23
note yeah, well, this is amazing .
00:30:26
Speaker 4: They did this one thing and that's why everything
00:30:29
doesn't matter anymore.
00:30:30
Speaker 2: He has a heroic moment.
00:30:31
Speaker 4: Saeed has heroic moments they all do.
00:30:32
Everyone has heroic moments.
00:30:34
Speaker 2: They're all inherently good people who let
00:30:38
their issues.
00:30:39
Either they grow from them or they don't.
00:30:41
Michael didn't grow from his.
00:30:43
Charlie does not really grow from his until he absolutely has
00:30:46
to yeah kate arguably does and doesn't.
00:30:49
I argue she doesn't.
00:30:49
Other people argue she would jack, look that they all grow.
00:30:52
Yeah, that's the whole point.
00:30:53
And they all exactly, and some of them don't and they're bad
00:30:56
and some of them do and they're good and they're all flawed.
00:30:59
Yeah, but they're all good people, right for the most part
00:31:04
like there's no one who's inherently evil that we've seen
00:31:07
so far.
00:31:08
No right, it's just what will they let get in the way?
00:31:10
Speaker 1: exactly right.
00:31:11
So number four I'm good with.
00:31:14
Yeah, hurley hurley, everybody loves hurley, everybody loves
00:31:18
hurley hurley's ability to maintain his optimism and humor
00:31:22
even in the face of adversity.
00:31:23
It's a testament to his resilient spirit, and I can't
00:31:26
wait to start talking about the episode, because hurley just
00:31:28
killed me in this.
00:31:28
Speaker 2: Yes, and that's what I was going to say and the best
00:31:31
part about hurley and what I think that that kind of sums up
00:31:34
and what we do see in this episode again why it's so nice
00:31:36
to be kind of reflecting on all is his whole like, even when his
00:31:40
heart is broken, yeah, even he's like you're a piece of shit
00:31:44
, I know you killed Libby.
00:31:46
He just accepts it and is like I'm done.
00:31:50
Speaker 1: I'm done yeah.
00:31:51
Speaker 2: Like he's like I'm not going to help you, I'm not
00:31:53
going to participate in this fucking zoo, but I'm not going
00:31:56
to lash out, I'm not going to hurt you.
00:31:58
Speaker 1: I'm not going to whatever Exactly.
00:31:59
Speaker 2: Right, because he's just.
00:32:00
It is like he will not let he's resilient.
00:32:03
That is such a good way to he has a resilient spirit number
00:32:07
three yeah, I mean, yeah, I'm gonna be honest I think five,
00:32:14
four, three, two, one should be jack, juliet well, I honestly
00:32:19
think it should be, I think, story's number three.
00:32:21
I think story should probably be five.
00:32:23
Yeah, I think juliet should be four.
00:32:23
I think jack should be, I think , soyer's number three.
00:32:25
I think soyer should probably be five.
00:32:25
Yeah, I think juliet should be four.
00:32:26
I think jack should be three, and then we'll save the.
00:32:30
I think two and one are fine, which we'll get to in a second.
00:32:32
Yeah, uh.
00:32:35
Speaker 1: So what do you like?
00:32:36
Soyer?
00:32:37
Speaker 2: I yeah, soyer should be in the top five, I think yeah
00:32:39
I'm good with that he's, he's, he's very important, like I said
00:32:42
, um because his arc too, if we're talking about the whole
00:32:47
series is phenomenal.
00:32:48
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, he's got a great arc yeah.
00:32:50
Speaker 2: And, like we've talked about even this season,
00:32:52
like we see those bits like when something needs to be done,
00:32:54
when it's important, like he's the first, like he jumps in the
00:33:06
drugs to actually help libby pass more peacefully, he doesn't
00:33:07
.
00:33:07
He doesn't argue like is he difficult?
00:33:08
Is he an asshole?
00:33:08
Sometimes yes, but when it matters was, is he willing to
00:33:10
put that aside?
00:33:11
And that just gets more and more obvious throughout.
00:33:16
So three I'm no problem with number two desmond desi and if
00:33:22
you're watching in real time and you're like, I agree that makes
00:33:27
sense, because what you saw in today's episode is the height of
00:33:32
why Desmond is so lovable.
00:33:34
Speaker 1: Absolutely.
00:33:34
Speaker 4: He's fantastic.
00:33:35
You're telling me that in one, either one long episode or two
00:33:40
half episodes or whatever you can have someone make my
00:33:45
soulless ass cry yeah in.
00:33:47
You know what I mean, like I've watched how many people die
00:33:50
already and I did not shed a goddamn tear, but this man comes
00:33:55
on screen.
00:33:56
Speaker 2: I know he says god knows what and then all of a
00:33:58
sudden I'm and then I'm like blubbering like quietly in the
00:34:01
corner, like what's happening, and that's just fantastic
00:34:05
character like the idea that we're in season two and we've
00:34:08
already seen that desmond and penny, who we've penny was just
00:34:11
in this episode for the first time I know and desmond's been
00:34:13
in like what?
00:34:14
two episodes before this, yeah, and we're already seeing how
00:34:17
fucking vital they're gonna be like this.
00:34:18
This is another reason this show is so phenomenal, because
00:34:20
you're like it's not, it's not just jack and law from season
00:34:24
one, episode one, that are important.
00:34:25
We're getting characters at the end of season two that are so
00:34:27
fucking compelling and vital and it's so beautiful so moving and
00:34:33
number one fenry fenry, obviously not his name but we
00:34:39
will call him fenry for that.
00:34:41
Speaker 1: You know what?
00:34:41
Speaker 2: no, we can call it.
00:34:42
Speaker 1: I think we can say yeah, it's ben his name his
00:34:45
character's name is ben and like you're like he, he comes, he
00:34:48
becomes a regular in literally the next episode.
00:34:51
Yeah, so like absolutely, he is one of the best characters in
00:34:56
the entire series, so yeah, and we won't.
00:34:59
Speaker 2: We won't talk too much but like you already you've
00:35:00
heard us talk about it the manipulation, the one-liners,
00:35:03
the subtlety, like the shift in this episode from what you've
00:35:08
seen from him before to the, the commanding presence and and he
00:35:11
has, at the end of this, terrifying.
00:35:12
There there's just no comparison like.
00:35:14
Number one is right, number two is right.
00:35:16
I think jack and juliet and sawyer should round out the top
00:35:21
five.
00:35:21
I think sawyer should be a little bit behind juliet and
00:35:24
jack.
00:35:25
Personally, I agree but if, if anything, if we just switch
00:35:28
charlie from five to twelve and put jack in five, I would be
00:35:33
okay with it.
00:35:34
Speaker 4: There's no way that charlie should be five makes no
00:35:37
fucking sense like oh, anyway well, yeah that was a great deep
00:35:42
dive into Screen Rant's list.
00:35:45
Speaker 1: Screen Rant's terrible list BS list.
00:35:49
Speaker 4: Screen.
00:35:49
Speaker 2: Rant come at us, I think you're right, Kip.
00:35:52
Speaker 4: I think the way that they're looking at it is like
00:35:55
they've focused on like one moment for each character as
00:35:58
their defining moment Exactly, and that's not how it works.
00:36:03
Speaker 2: That's not how characters work.
00:36:04
And it's not how we want it to work right and like that's what
00:36:06
we're always kind of trying to tell ourselves when we're doing
00:36:08
our recap and that's why we try to take it a little bit more
00:36:11
like charlie.
00:36:11
And it's hard because, like when we were starting out, I was
00:36:14
like charlie's really great, because I was also thinking of
00:36:16
that one defining moment that we're gonna get to eventually.
00:36:20
But then I'm, when I take it episode by episode, I'm like no,
00:36:23
you're not a good guy yeah like no, exactly, and even when
00:36:28
we'll get into it today, and even like at the end of this
00:36:30
episode, I'm like, nope, still don't like you so let's talk
00:36:33
about this episode.
00:36:33
Speaker 4: Theresa, give us the synopsis okay, so I'm gonna
00:36:36
combine the synopsis synopses, whatever the plural is together,
00:36:40
because they are both written by carlton cuse and dam and
00:36:43
Damon Lindelof and directed by the prolific Jack Bender.
00:36:47
That's why it's so good.
00:36:48
After discovering something odd offshore, jack and Saeed come
00:36:52
up with a plan to confront the others and hopefully get Walt
00:36:55
back.
00:36:55
Michael leads his team into the jungle towards an uncertain
00:36:59
fate, jack follows a man he knows to be a traitor deep into
00:37:02
the unknown, and Locke forges an alliance with Desmond.
00:37:05
Mr Echo and Locke come to blows as Locke makes a potentially
00:37:09
cataclysmic decision regarding the button and the hatch.
00:37:14
Speaker 1: Congrats on saying cataclysmic Kurt.
00:37:16
Speaker 4: I know I'm so proud.
00:37:17
Was that just?
00:37:18
Speaker 2: the first one she practiced, that's both.
00:37:19
Oh wow, that was flawless.
00:37:22
Speaker 4: I know I've never read it so good before.
00:37:24
That was flawless.
00:37:24
I know I've never read it so good before I didn't know where
00:37:26
you started.
00:37:26
Speaker 1: Cataclysmic.
00:37:27
Speaker 2: Cataclysmic, I mean yeah.
00:37:29
Speaker 1: Okay, so okay, let me give you some facts and trivia.
00:37:34
What do you think this is on IMDb right now?
00:37:36
Speaker 4: Above nine, it's going to be like a nine five.
00:37:38
Speaker 1: Nine, point four.
00:37:40
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:37:41
You know, how IMdb does that thing where it shows you, like
00:37:43
some of the highest ranking ones , like when you go to the show
00:37:46
that's got to be up there.
00:37:47
Speaker 1: It's so good um, okay , 17.84 million viewers, which
00:37:52
is actually the second highest rated finale after season one,
00:37:58
though the rest of them only go down from here but not the
00:38:01
second greatest highest episode, so your nickname count only two
00:38:04
.
00:38:04
Speaker 2: He was, he was tame today he was serious yeah, he
00:38:07
was serious yeah and he only really gave the ones that are
00:38:10
endearing that he always calls exactly yeah, so that was good
00:38:13
yeah all right, so I'm going to give you some trivia.
00:38:16
Speaker 1: All right, how many days before airing was the scene
00:38:20
with Penelope filmed and say that again so how many days
00:38:27
before the episode aired did they film the scene at the end
00:38:32
with penny?
00:38:37
Speaker 2: uh, I think it had to have been like three.
00:38:39
It was like I remember reading that they were so afraid of
00:38:42
there being like spoilers or something right.
00:38:47
Speaker 1: That's incorrect.
00:38:48
Speaker 4: But and the right.
00:38:50
She's in the right direction what amanda said was incorrect
00:38:54
oh you try um, um, I gotta change my.
00:39:00
I don't want to say walt anymore.
00:39:01
Um, fuck, uh, it's gonna take me longer to figure out.
00:39:07
Um, I'm gonna say okay, if a man is wrong I'm gonna go really
00:39:16
far the other way and I'm gonna say six months.
00:39:20
Speaker 1: Oh, jesus, no five amanda was very close oh, damn
00:39:24
it five days before filming or before it aired.
00:39:28
They filmed it because yeah holy smokes, but the entire
00:39:31
episode, like the whole thing, was actually only filmed four
00:39:35
weeks before it aired like that's so short yeah, that's a
00:39:38
quick turnaround.
00:39:39
Speaker 2: Holy smoke, I think they did try to keep it like
00:39:41
spoiler free it was so hard back then, right?
00:39:44
Well, it'd be hard now too okay .
00:39:47
Speaker 1: So second question where did we last see desmond's
00:39:51
hatchmeat?
00:39:51
Speaker 4: kelvin inman he was in the army when I didn't hear a
00:39:57
sound what you stole it uh in the army when saeed was there
00:40:05
that that's right in the Gulf War.
00:40:07
Speaker 2: Oh yes.
00:40:08
Speaker 1: He was the American.
00:40:09
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah.
00:40:11
Speaker 1: Okay, next question what language are the men who
00:40:15
call Penny speaking?
00:40:17
Speaker 4: I was trying to figure that out the entire time.
00:40:23
Speaker 2: Russian.
00:40:24
Speaker 1: Incorrect.
00:40:25
Speaker 4: No, it's not Russian.
00:40:26
I don't know, I don't know what it is, but it's not
00:40:28
Russianussian.
00:40:29
I don't know, I don't know what it is, but it's not portuguese
00:40:32
bizarre.
00:40:33
Speaker 1: I don't know why, but I don't think I've ever heard
00:40:35
portuguese spoken.
00:40:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, I liked it.
00:40:38
Speaker 1: I liked it, yeah yeah , okay, I got one more question.
00:40:41
It's funny, I thought russian too at first I think it's
00:40:43
because they're in the cold no, I'm gonna be really honest with
00:40:47
you, I feel really guilty about why I thought that.
00:40:49
Speaker 4: I knew it wasn't Russian.
00:40:50
I was like it's not Spanish, but it feels Spanish-esque.
00:40:54
Speaker 2: See, I was just like.
00:40:55
It's the same way If you put two very basic English-speaking
00:41:00
person in a cold setting and you're like are they Canadian or
00:41:05
American?
00:41:05
I'd be like Canadian Because I'd be like cold is associated
00:41:08
with Canada and I heard like an accent I didn't understand in
00:41:12
cold.
00:41:12
Speaker 4: And I assumed it was Russian.
00:41:13
It must be.
00:41:13
Speaker 2: Russia.
00:41:14
The other cold nation.
00:41:14
I'm very like cold.
00:41:15
Like I'm very discriminatory against the cold, I assume only
00:41:20
Canadians and Russians are cold.
00:41:22
Speaker 1: What about the Finns?
00:41:24
Speaker 2: I think that they are above it somehow.
00:41:26
I think that they are above it somehow.
00:41:27
Speaker 1: I don't know, because they're so goddamn happy over
00:41:28
there.
00:41:28
Speaker 2: I know, I think that's what it is.
00:41:29
I'm like us.
00:41:30
Speaker 1: Canadians All right.
00:41:31
Next question this is the last one.
00:41:33
This is a Jack Bender directed episode.
00:41:36
Including this episode, how many has Jack Bender directed so
00:41:41
far?
00:41:42
Speaker 2: So far hey hey, hey.
00:41:44
Hey, don't judge.
00:41:45
Trace is reaching for the synopsis.
00:41:48
Speaker 4: How many times have we said Kip's favorite?
00:41:50
It feels like a lot, it feels like everything Kip's favorite.
00:41:54
Speaker 2: I think he does like 43 total or something, or was
00:41:57
that Stephen Williams?
00:41:58
I can't remember.
00:41:59
No, stephen Williams did 25.
00:42:00
I'm going to say Sound effect please.
00:42:06
Dun, dun, dun, dun dun.
00:42:07
I'm going to say 13.
00:42:08
Speaker 1: Okay, you are correct .
00:42:12
Speaker 4: Oh, it's 13.
00:42:13
There was just no point in me even trying.
00:42:15
Speaker 1: I was going to be like oh wait a minute.
00:42:16
No, that's right, woo-hoo.
00:42:19
Speaker 2: That's a lot, Since I've had what like 50 episodes,
00:42:23
Not even Just under.
00:42:23
Yeah, Pretty good.
00:42:24
Speaker 1: Pretty, it's not even just under yeah.
00:42:25
Speaker 2: Pretty good, pretty good, jack, you're pretty good
00:42:27
at this.
00:42:28
Speaker 4: He's good, he knows what's up, yeah.
00:42:30
Oh okay, alrighty.
00:42:32
Speaker 1: So there we go.
00:42:32
So next up, we got a high level takeaway.
00:42:36
I don't know.
00:42:36
Speaker 2: I think I'm too emotional for one today.
00:42:38
I don't think I'm going to, I don't think I'm going to reserve
00:42:44
that for nothing and really just shift the importance to
00:42:47
what we all need to hear today, which is I agree, I think I.
00:42:51
Speaker 1: Teresa's stream of consciousness.
00:42:53
Speaker 4: So just a warning this stream is not that good,
00:42:56
because I was very stressed.
00:42:58
All right, here we go.
00:43:00
Season two finale.
00:43:01
That boat won't hold you all, my friends.
00:43:04
That will not save you all.
00:43:05
Ok, here we go.
00:43:06
Oh, I'm like like what does this mean?
00:43:09
It says, oh yes, here we go.
00:43:11
It's supposed to say, oh yes, here we go.
00:43:15
The guys are taking their shirts off, but uh, jack didn't take a
00:43:18
shirt off though, so that's rude.
00:43:20
Where did kate get binoculars from michael?
00:43:24
I hate you.
00:43:24
Where did all these guns come from?
00:43:26
Didn't't we think, hey, we're saved, just kidding, we're
00:43:29
stealing your bu-.
00:43:29
My god, who's shooting at them?
00:43:32
Oh, man, it was hot of Jack to break that door with his bare
00:43:35
foot.
00:43:35
Oh, it's Desmond.
00:43:38
And man, he looks messed.
00:43:39
Oh, who did we get this time in the flashback?
00:43:43
Oh, it's a Des flashback.
00:43:45
Oh, that's a cute pic that he's got there.
00:43:57
You know, I was thinking the same thing, guy.
00:43:58
How do you know when you're gonna die?
00:43:59
A hole, you guys, a hole.
00:43:59
When your two loves collide, the OC am lost.
00:44:01
Hi, caleb Nickel.
00:44:01
Oh shit, that's rude.
00:44:01
Look at all those letters he kept and, ho damn, that's a lot
00:44:04
of money, man, this guy's brutes magoots.
00:44:07
Uh, jack has a hard time keeping secrets.
00:44:10
Saeed, he always tails.
00:44:11
Kate, everything for the most part.
00:44:13
Okay, john, you can't tell Echo what to do?
00:44:15
Also, kick him in the bum leg.
00:44:17
Kick him in the bum leg, that'll stop him.
00:44:19
Man, john is not a happy camper .
00:44:21
Oh, echo, that was a good catch .
00:44:26
Wow, uh, saeed, saeed, wait, there's a flaw in your plan here
00:44:31
, man, you don't know how to sail.
00:44:33
That's a pretty big issue.
00:44:35
Oh, look, it's libby.
00:44:37
How fortuitous for desi.
00:44:39
Libby is literally such a good person.
00:44:40
I'm so sad she's dead, michael, god damn it.
00:44:43
Oh, jinn and son are gonna sail together.
00:44:45
Seems dangerous.
00:44:46
Be careful, my friends.
00:44:47
Um, why is michael fucking shooting at birds?
00:44:50
Oh, charlie, what's your damage ?
00:44:52
All right, john wouldn't know about des coming back.
00:44:56
I'm so distracted watching this episode.
00:44:57
It's decent.
00:44:58
My thoughts are all over the place.
00:45:00
Desmond, you better not lie to her.
00:45:02
You tell that woman the truth.
00:45:04
My god, these two are so sad and beautiful.
00:45:06
It's very nice of the Dharma Initiative to provide alcohol.
00:45:10
That's a cute joke.
00:45:11
What did one snowman say to the other?
00:45:13
Smells like carrots.
00:45:15
Oh, john took the orientation video with him.
00:45:17
Okay, that's weird, john, don't recruit Des for your purposes.
00:45:20
He's gonna have such a hangover .
00:45:22
Leave him alone.
00:45:22
You know, hurley really shouldn't be with these people.
00:45:26
Michael, are you all right?
00:45:27
All right, you look kind of fucked.
00:45:28
Um, how do you make a torch not burn the stick?
00:45:31
I said, michael, to finally acknowledge, even in the
00:45:34
slightest, what everyone is doing for him.
00:45:36
Um, is that a fucking foot statue?
00:45:39
Where's the rest of it?
00:45:40
I didn't even notice the four toes, ew.
00:45:43
Um, is this another lockdown?
00:45:44
Wait, the counter stopped.
00:45:45
Oh, this is a des lock pl ploy, I'm sure.
00:45:49
Oh, john, you're always so sure about things, but then how can
00:45:53
you be sure about this when you feel like you've been wrong
00:45:54
about the past things?
00:45:55
Oh man, whatever Dez has been sailing through looks terrifying
00:45:58
.
00:45:58
I'd be so nauseous.
00:46:00
What the hell is happening?
00:46:01
Hi, kelvin?
00:46:02
Kelvin seems like he's had such a rough go of it.
00:46:05
I will never, ever forget the book called Turn of the Screw
00:46:10
ever.
00:46:10
I was shamed last time and I'll never forget it now.
00:46:13
Kelvin, what is he going to be infected by?
00:46:16
Also, kelvin, can you not be infected by being around Desmond
00:46:21
?
00:46:21
If he was infected, what are we being infected with?
00:46:23
Holy crap, kate, you've got laser eyes.
00:46:26
It's actually super impressive.
00:46:28
Holy crap, kate, you've got laser eyes.
00:46:29
It's actually super impressive.
00:46:29
Man.
00:46:29
I feel bad for all these people .
00:46:30
I feel like I feel bad for all these people feeling like you're
00:46:34
being used.
00:46:34
This is all so fucked.
00:46:36
Michael is fucked.
00:46:36
Fuck you, michael.
00:46:37
I'm glad they found out that Michael's a fucking murderer.
00:46:42
Ah, they did it on purpose doing the map.
00:46:45
What does that mean?
00:46:46
What purpose?
00:46:47
What map?
00:46:50
I can't even figure out where that came from, but desmond has
00:46:53
really nice hair.
00:46:54
Oh shit, they've been doing this for two years already.
00:46:57
Oh, I know what it is when they're talking about the map.
00:47:01
They mean the.
00:47:01
I was talking about the blacklight map.
00:47:03
They did that on purpose.
00:47:05
Thank you, okay.
00:47:07
Um, oh shit, they've been doing this for two years already and
00:47:11
desmond hasn't come out of the hatch.
00:47:12
Imagine being down there for two years.
00:47:14
I'd be, I'd go fucking crazy.
00:47:15
Why did they need to go out other than for the food?
00:47:19
What's kelvin doing out there?
00:47:20
Um, why does everyone know how to rig dynamite?
00:47:24
I mean, echo isn't wrong.
00:47:25
Something is obviously going on here.
00:47:27
It's not that cut and dry, it just can't be.
00:47:29
Uh, that's a big blast, hot damn.
00:47:31
Is everyone okay?
00:47:32
Couldn't do what?
00:47:33
What's under there?
00:47:34
Assistant determination for what?
00:47:36
What are we talking about?
00:47:38
What's this key, for you know, I think Desmond hit the nail on
00:47:41
the head about Locke.
00:47:43
Something is not right, saeed, you shiny, beautiful man.
00:47:45
But also, can we talk about how he has three guns on him?
00:47:49
Hot damn.
00:47:50
Wait, what the hell?
00:47:56
This hatch has nothing behind it.
00:47:57
Oh, look the journals.
00:47:57
It's weird that they just got dumped all over the ground,
00:47:59
Littering much.
00:47:59
Oh my god, michael, god damn it , you were not leading them to
00:48:02
the beach, what the hell?
00:48:03
Okay, but what if Desmond is right, john?
00:48:15
What makes your theory right and his wrong?
00:48:16
Oh man, des follows very closely what is up with everyone on the
00:48:18
show right now?
00:48:18
Oh, there's his boat.
00:48:19
Oh my god, kelvin was gonna leave him, poor desmond.
00:48:20
Okay, wait, why is desmond going around?
00:48:21
Why is desmond going along with what lock thinks is gonna
00:48:26
happen, which is nothing?
00:48:27
If what happened to his last?
00:48:29
If this is what happened last time, the button wasn't pushed,
00:48:33
literally my heart stopped beating for a solid minute.
00:48:36
I have such chills I can't breathe, and this is special.
00:48:40
Or, and this is stressful, I think I crashed your plane.
00:48:43
What the actual fuck is going on right now?
00:48:44
You know, I hate that Michael is just walking around with the
00:48:47
others all fucked up like I'm so cool, I fucked you all and I'm
00:48:52
gonna get my me, my son, out of here.
00:48:54
You know what?
00:48:54
Fuck you, michael?
00:48:55
Oh, fenry, there you are.
00:48:56
You know, fenry gives me the negative nillies.
00:48:59
Tom should keep his beard, he looks better with it on.
00:49:02
Um, is that?
00:49:04
Is charlie that fucked up?
00:49:06
Oh, if charlie is that fucked up, is echo, if Charlie is that
00:49:08
fucked up, is Echo then dead?
00:49:09
I have such chills that I want to cry Um Locke, you can't be
00:49:13
that certain.
00:49:14
I'm sorry.
00:49:14
This is fucked up, everything's fucked up.
00:49:17
So now in the flashbacks we're up to when the lost seas are on
00:49:20
the island.
00:49:20
Okay, oh my God, is that from Penny?
00:49:22
What happened?
00:49:23
What's on his shoulders?
00:49:25
Oh my God, they're so sweet, sweet.
00:49:26
I feel so bad for desi.
00:49:27
Oh, I think that's lock pounding up there.
00:49:29
I love desmond already.
00:49:31
How does lock explain what's happening now?
00:49:33
Right now, truly, shit is jiggling, shit is flying.
00:49:37
No shit, you were wrong lock.
00:49:39
Oh my god, what is happening, seriously?
00:49:40
What the fuck is happening?
00:49:41
What are this?
00:49:42
Holy fuck?
00:49:43
It's not over yet, right?
00:49:44
Oh, thank god it's not.
00:49:46
I can't even understand what the hell just happened.
00:49:48
What's best, henry?
00:49:49
What are we talking about?
00:49:50
Fenry isn't wrong.
00:49:51
What friends?
00:49:52
Fuck you, michael.
00:49:53
You goddamn liar Minus a thousand.
00:49:54
Um, fenry, y'all ain't right.
00:49:57
Oh, man, walt looks like an adult now.
00:49:59
Hashtag the problem with having a kid on a show, west State Kid
00:50:02
.
00:50:02
But man, poor walt is just a pawn in all this.
00:50:17
Fuck you, michael, may you never return.
00:50:18
Oh, awkward booby grab on kate.
00:50:19
Um, so are charlie and claire a couple now?
00:50:20
Oh, yep, they are man, her face is so clear, not a zit inside.
00:50:21
I'm so jealous.
00:50:21
Um, why are we in winter?
00:50:22
Who is this?
00:50:22
Now?
00:50:23
What's happening?
00:50:23
Who are this?
00:50:24
Who are they calling?
00:50:26
Oh, my, my God, it's to Penny.
00:50:27
More chills.
00:50:28
What is Penny looking for and why?
00:50:33
Speaker 1: Okay.
00:50:33
Speaker 4: Oh my God, okay, sorry, that was really long.
00:50:36
Speaker 1: No, that's good, that was impressive, teresa.
00:50:38
That was like almost two hours of your thoughts.
00:50:40
Oh man.
00:50:41
Well recorded.
00:50:42
My favorite quote was shit is jiggling.
00:50:46
When the hatch was vibrating.
00:50:49
Speaker 4: Oh shit is jiggling when the hatch was.
00:50:50
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, stuff was going crazy.
00:50:52
Shit is jiggling.
00:50:53
It was jiggling.
00:50:54
Uh, yeah, I had.
00:50:55
I was literally writing up.
00:50:56
The map was painted on the blast doors.
00:50:57
I think that's what you're talking about, and then you
00:50:59
figured it out.
00:50:59
Um yeah, and also I was thinking the same thing.
00:51:04
Why is desmond going along with this when he's like going along
00:51:07
with lock?
00:51:08
Speaker 4: yeah, he's already seen what happens when which is
00:51:11
shit hits the it's the fan jiggles, it jiggles jiggles like
00:51:14
crazy and it feels like there's an earthquake yeah, so we'll
00:51:18
talk about that.
00:51:19
Speaker 1: But yeah, good stream , very intense couple.
00:51:24
Speaker 4: It was very intense very intense.
00:51:25
Yeah, all right, let's get into that episode yeah I know, I
00:51:29
just like.
00:51:30
I'm just trying to think like where do you?
00:51:31
Speaker 2: even start.
00:51:31
It was very intense, very intense.
00:51:32
Yeah, all right, let's get into that episode.
00:51:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, I just like, I'm just trying to think
00:51:35
like where do you even start?
00:51:35
Speaker 2: We'll start with Desmond.
00:51:37
Yeah, let's start with Desmond.
00:51:38
So we, well, we start with them finding Desmond.
00:51:41
So they see the boat, mm-hmm.
00:51:43
Speaker 1: Poor.
00:51:44
Speaker 2: Libby and Anna Lucia's funerals you know I've
00:51:45
already forgotten about that.
00:51:46
Speaker 4: To be honest, I was just like boat.
00:51:48
Here we go.
00:51:49
Speaker 1: I totally forgot, that's what was going on.
00:51:51
Speaker 2: And, uh, our three main men, of course jump into
00:51:54
action and go ahead and swim out to it.
00:51:55
Speaker 1: So I was very upset.
00:51:57
Jack did not take it.
00:51:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, but we do get that kick in of Desmond.
00:52:02
Speaker 4: Very martial art.
00:52:09
Speaker 2: So Jack kicks in the like I guess door if you will,
00:52:11
to like the under part of the boat with his bare foot, like
00:52:12
pretty cool and they find a very drunk.
00:52:15
Speaker 1: Desmond so good.
00:52:17
Speaker 2: And we get the beginnings of the, our first
00:52:20
ever look at Desmond's history.
00:52:23
So, we see that he's getting released from prison.
00:52:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, and like do we ever find out why he was I think
00:52:32
in future episodes we do Because I can't remember why he
00:52:35
was dishonorably discharged or court-martialed or whatever it
00:52:39
is they say he was.
00:52:41
Speaker 2: I would imagine he was court-martialed as well, or
00:52:43
whatever they call it in Scotland.
00:52:45
Speaker 1: But yeah, no, that's good, because I can't remember I
00:52:48
did like when Desmond asked, jack, are you still pushing it?
00:52:52
And Jack's kind of like yeah, we're still pushing it, I would
00:52:56
like that delivery.
00:52:57
That was good.
00:52:58
Speaker 2: No, it was good.
00:52:59
Desmond's great.
00:53:00
Seeing some of his background was really cool Seeing where he
00:53:05
kind of came from.
00:53:05
I also had a similar seeing allendale.
00:53:10
I remember that allendale was on it, but I watched the oc in
00:53:12
real time.
00:53:12
I did not watch the first little bit of lost in real time
00:53:15
same, so I didn't remember he would have been on both at the
00:53:19
same time okay because the oc ran from 2003 to 2000.
00:53:24
Well, actually, maybe not.
00:53:25
Maybe he died on the oc before because he would have been in
00:53:30
the first couple of seasons of.
00:53:32
Does he die in season two or season three of two?
00:53:35
Okay then, yeah, he would have been probably off of it by the
00:53:37
time he's on this.
00:53:38
So maybe not, but it would have been right after.
00:53:40
This would have been probably the first thing he did after the
00:53:42
oc.
00:53:43
So it was like just kind of crazy because, like, it's again
00:53:46
one of those things where some characters, some actors, are
00:53:48
just typecast right into these kind of like.
00:53:51
Speaker 1: Is this kind of like what he did?
00:53:52
I never saw the OC he was also like the dad.
00:53:55
Speaker 4: Very controlling.
00:53:57
Speaker 2: Rich, powerful, controlling manipulative, Didn't
00:54:01
think his daughter's partner was good enough.
00:54:04
Speaker 1: Like he's always kind of getting involved More
00:54:07
diabolical on this for sure we haven't even begun to see yet
00:54:11
charles woodmore, and charles woodmore is in for the long haul
00:54:14
yeah so, but it's just kind of interesting to see like, oh,
00:54:17
it's another one where he's like clearly this he's a great bad
00:54:20
guy.
00:54:20
Speaker 2: But like I think I would die if I saw alan.
00:54:22
I think he was in something not too long ago that I saw him in,
00:54:26
where he was like just like a happy, like good guy and I was
00:54:28
like I don't trust it doesn't make sense, he's good, he's good
00:54:32
he's a good.
00:54:33
Speaker 1: He's good in this role but yeah, that was a
00:54:36
interesting scene where um he gets in the car and so sad to
00:54:40
see all the letters he wrote penny was intercepted what an
00:54:44
asshole.
00:54:44
Yeah, I made a note about him and just like here I'm gonna pay
00:54:48
you off to fuck off, basically, and then that line of what
00:54:52
makes you think that I would run away.
00:54:53
Speaker 2: And he said because you're a coward, I'm like this
00:54:57
is rough, yeah, rude.
00:54:58
Like so much.
00:55:00
That's just heartbreaking.
00:55:02
He clearly loves this woman, who we don't quite know yet, and
00:55:06
he tried to stay in touch with her.
00:55:08
And this dad is clearly like intercepting it all yeah,
00:55:12
exactly, and he's being an asshole.
00:55:13
So we kind of see that, like desmond's kind of clearly not in
00:55:17
a great place in life when he's released from prison no, not
00:55:21
really sure what he should be doing, and uh, it's clearly
00:55:24
being manipulated, manipulated by this powerful figure so and
00:55:29
then it cuts back to the island where we see again, say you kind
00:55:31
of talking to jack about what the plan is and this plan is, I
00:55:35
don't know like what did you guys think of saeed's plan?
00:55:39
Speaker 1: to.
00:55:39
To be honest, I thought it was a little ham-fisted yeah me too,
00:55:44
I just ham-fisted Like just sort of like bananas.
00:55:48
Speaker 4: Yeah, Like bananas Kind of bogus.
00:55:52
Speaker 2: I thought that it was a little bit like okay site
00:55:54
yeah.
00:55:55
Speaker 1: Like I don't know You're going to sail a boat to a
00:55:59
part of the island where you don't even know where it is.
00:56:02
You've never sailed around the island before.
00:56:04
You don't even know how to sail .
00:56:06
First of all, that was a major flaw, yeah, like.
00:56:08
Secondly, you don't know what is out there.
00:56:12
Speaker 2: You don't know if they have people watching the
00:56:14
coast and like you already, like you believe, what I think
00:56:16
bothers me about things like that is like they're like and it
00:56:20
kind of ties into later.
00:56:21
So I guess we'll kind of have to I think we'll have to jump a
00:56:23
little bit here and there but, let's jump he.
00:56:26
So they're.
00:56:26
They don't trust michael, that michael's deceiving them.
00:56:29
And then it's like I'm gonna single-handedly get in this boat
00:56:31
, meet you, where he says he's taking you scope it out ahead of
00:56:35
time.
00:56:35
They won't know I'm coming, so I can do that, even though we
00:56:37
don't know, like you said, any of the situation.
00:56:40
Speaker 1: And then we're surprised to find out later that
00:56:42
michael isn't leading them where he said he was going to
00:56:45
lead them yeah, I feel like saeed would have anticipated
00:56:48
that being like we can't trust him.
00:56:50
So why am I going to trust that he's taking you where he says
00:56:55
and I think that's the part I really didn't like yeah because
00:56:58
I didn't think that made a lot of sense first.
00:56:59
Speaker 2: So it's a lot of deception.
00:57:00
It's a lot of saeed thinking he can handle a lot on his own
00:57:03
yeah, I think it would have made more sense if he tried to like
00:57:05
tail them.
00:57:06
I thought so too.
00:57:08
Speaker 1: I don't know yeah, like, and to me I mean it's
00:57:11
interesting because it does like make you think I mean this is
00:57:15
like obviously jumping way to the end of the episode where we
00:57:19
see the others and I mean like so this is really jumping
00:57:23
towards the end, but like we see the others are and you see how
00:57:27
basically they've outsmarted them and it does sort of like
00:57:32
put them all in their place, though Like Said and Jack and
00:57:34
all of them, they like think they can one up and and like
00:57:41
outsmart these people who live on the island and they're kind
00:57:44
of like shit.
00:57:45
we really underestimated these people.
00:57:46
Speaker 2: We are not exactly yeah, so I mean we really
00:57:47
underestimated these people.
00:57:48
Speaker 1: We are not Exactly yeah, so I mean that was an
00:57:50
interesting moment.
00:57:51
Speaker 2: But what bothers me is I don't think any of them
00:57:54
were thinking that really.
00:57:55
No, they all think like what we didn't see Said and Jin and Sun
00:57:59
again, so we don't really know what.
00:58:01
Speaker 1: No, we just saw them sort of hiding from the blinding
00:58:04
light and then that's it.
00:58:12
Speaker 2: So it's interesting as well, because, I agree, I
00:58:13
think that it's like, almost like what?
00:58:14
What?
00:58:15
We don't trust michael, so why are we trusting michael?
00:58:17
Yeah we don't know what we're getting into, but we think that
00:58:19
there's this high level, like this hatch and the medical stuff
00:58:23
from here and fake beards and ethan infiltrating and like
00:58:27
everything we do know about them is not good.
00:58:29
So we think we're going to somehow, like you said, outsmart
00:58:33
them and it's like it's their space exactly even if they don't
00:58:35
know you're coming.
00:58:36
This is their court.
00:58:37
Yeah, right, like they have home court advantage here.
00:58:40
Speaker 1: Like you guys are in trouble, right the fact that
00:58:43
they think they can outsmart them is just like it shows.
00:58:45
It shows that hubris.
00:58:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, so Jack's biggest downfall is his hubris.
00:58:51
Speaker 1: However I liked how Jack wanted at first was like,
00:58:53
well, I'm going to have to tell Kate and Sawyer and Hurley.
00:58:56
And so he's like, do not tell them, which was a bad call.
00:58:59
Also, I think, on sides point or part.
00:59:02
I think, it would, I mean, would it?
00:59:06
I mean I get that they wouldn't have gone if they knew from the
00:59:08
get-go they would have been like fuck you yeah we're not
00:59:10
really for sure.
00:59:11
Yeah, we're not going on this track and then, but like uh
00:59:15
interesting, there was a cut scene of sawyer agreeing with
00:59:18
hurley being like I'm not gonna help this guy, let's go back,
00:59:21
hugo oh yeah, so it's interesting you say that.
00:59:25
Speaker 2: But yeah, so like I get that Saeed wanted them all
00:59:29
to go along with it, but it just I'm also not sure why, like I'm
00:59:35
not sure why the solution wasn't just like Michael, get in
00:59:38
the hatch, you're locked up for eternity.
00:59:40
We don't trust you anymore.
00:59:42
Yeah, I don't know.
00:59:43
Like, maybe I'm just like I'm missing something or whatever.
00:59:46
Like when he's like like you guys are so confident he's wrong
00:59:49
, like if it was one of those things where they're like we're
00:59:50
not sure if he's wrong, we're not sure if he's right, we got
00:59:53
it.
00:59:53
We're a little bit dubious, but like we want to keep an eye out
00:59:56
, then I kind of do that.
00:59:57
But I was so convinced that he he's like no, he's been
01:00:00
compromised, so it's like why would we go along with anything
01:00:03
with him?
01:00:04
Speaker 1: yeah, and I like to think that they thought they
01:00:06
could get walt back was maybe it , but at the same, time I'm
01:00:09
thinking it's just like there.
01:00:12
There was many other ways to go about doing it.
01:00:15
Speaker 2: And then I have to completely agree with hurley.
01:00:17
Then like that he they put him, like he lied to them and risked
01:00:21
them all getting killed.
01:00:22
And then he's like, well, now you can't go back, because now
01:00:24
we all will die.
01:00:25
Speaker 4: And it's like, okay, but like you put them in this
01:00:27
weird position, like because now I think everyone should have
01:00:31
had a choice then, whether or not they wanted to participate
01:00:34
in this right exactly, and hurley's already probably
01:00:36
feeling a little bit out of his depth with, like, everything
01:00:38
going on but totally, um, that was one of my favorite scenes
01:00:41
when, like they were doling out the guns and they and he tries
01:00:44
to give one to hurley and he's like nope absolutely not.
01:00:47
Speaker 2: That's why he's so great.
01:00:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, he says like what?
01:00:49
No, I'm gonna kill someone.
01:00:50
And Sarge goes well, isn't that the point?
01:00:52
And he literally is like I thought the point was to go get
01:00:54
Walt back.
01:00:54
Yeah, like it's like.
01:00:55
Yes, thank you, hurley yeah, focus on focus on the plan.
01:00:59
Speaker 2: You guys, um, should we just kind of run with that
01:01:02
whole kind of like back and forth on that storyline?
01:01:03
Then this idea that like um, cause, I love that Jack didn't
01:01:08
give her, uh, michael, a loaded gun.
01:01:10
Speaker 1: I know Same and uh he loses it on that fucking bird.
01:01:15
Speaker 4: Clearly, yeah, clearly, because the bird flies.
01:01:17
He's like like Holy smokes.
01:01:21
Speaker 1: What the hell man.
01:01:23
Speaker 2: So on edge right.
01:01:25
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's like definitely should not have given
01:01:27
him a gun.
01:01:28
Speaker 4: Also, that bird did say hugo oh really, it's like no
01:01:32
in the canon that, like on the wind, you can hugo do that bird
01:01:37
say my name and he's again.
01:01:38
Speaker 2: He shits gold or whatever, like, oh man, it's so
01:01:42
good.
01:01:42
So I hear and hurley are an underappreciated duo.
01:01:46
Speaker 1: I agree, yeah, a hundred percent.
01:01:49
Speaker 2: But yeah, like that, yeah, just you know, and it's
01:01:53
very clear I think, I think Michael knows at that point that
01:01:55
they don't trust him, exactly Right, and so it really is where
01:02:02
it kind of hits the fan.
01:02:02
But there's like just so much not going on trust wise Cause.
01:02:03
Even then, like when they're walking, you know, and Kate
01:02:07
figures out that they're being tailed and only tell Sawyer.
01:02:11
Speaker 1: Yeah.
01:02:11
Speaker 2: And is like that was weird to me too.
01:02:13
Speaker 1: That was weird, Like when she said I'm about to turn
01:02:15
the tables on them.
01:02:16
I didn't expect her to literally start unloading her
01:02:19
gun on them.
01:02:20
Speaker 4: Yeah, it turned into a shootout in two seconds, jack
01:02:23
like walked by her essentially Exactly, and then she's like hey
01:02:26
, hey, we're being tailed.
01:02:27
Speaker 2: I mean, and I'm like what?
01:02:29
Speaker 1: this escalated quickly like why would you tell?
01:02:31
Speaker 2: jack as well, and then like you, and, and then,
01:02:34
sorry, they just start shooting and then they're like he's dead.
01:02:37
I'm like, okay, so sorry, just killed someone, like what is
01:02:40
happening here yeah, it was so bizarre I'm not sure this group
01:02:45
should be in charge of anything except to do like when they were
01:02:49
all leaving, and I think we all kind of talked about it because
01:02:52
we watched this one all together, which is always kind
01:02:53
of a little bit of fun, and I think at one point when they
01:02:57
were all walking out, me and Kip were saying how it was like so
01:03:01
cool, minus Michael, it's like the A-team of, like you know,
01:03:04
good looking group it's fun to watch them all out doing
01:03:07
something together.
01:03:08
I just wish um it hadn't it was anything else fruition like that
01:03:13
.
01:03:13
But that scene we've already touched on, but that scene where
01:03:17
they all realize everything, like I think we need to really
01:03:20
talk about that scene for a minute.
01:03:21
Let's talk about it now.
01:03:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, because like it's, I cried when when they
01:03:27
want to go after the other law, the other other, and Jack
01:03:30
basically has to say no, there's no point, they already know
01:03:34
where we are.
01:03:35
They already know we're coming, they've been warned, and then
01:03:38
people are starting to put two and two together and it's
01:03:41
emotional.
01:03:42
Speaker 2: It is emotional and just the looks on everyone's
01:03:44
faces.
01:03:45
Speaker 4: That's what killed me .
01:03:46
When they start to put it together that did you did you
01:03:48
let fenry go?
01:03:50
Speaker 1: yeah, and then it was and then hurley oh, did you
01:03:54
kill them and he's like I had to .
01:03:58
I didn't have a choice but then even takes it like one step
01:04:02
further.
01:04:02
But even if you had a choice, you still?
01:04:05
Would have killed them and it's like like hurley's putting it
01:04:07
together.
01:04:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, he knows yeah and it's like like Hurley's
01:04:09
putting it together.
01:04:09
Yeah, he knows yeah.
01:04:09
Speaker 1: And it's like no man.
01:04:10
They see right through you.
01:04:11
You're a monster.
01:04:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, literally, and that that scene is so
01:04:15
heartbreaking Cause like you can see Jack's like, just like I
01:04:26
have to like tell them now.
01:04:26
And he is.
01:04:27
I think there was even a part of him was like, maybe it's not
01:04:29
true.
01:04:29
Speaker 1: I know, I know Maybe it's not true.
01:04:32
Speaker 2: And then when all that starts to happen, and then
01:04:34
when they realize, when it's like, did you let Henry go?
01:04:36
And then it's like, okay, well, if he let Henry go, well, maybe
01:04:40
Henry was still the one who did it.
01:04:42
And it's like all these realizations happening and the
01:04:52
look on kate's face and the look , and when jack looks like he's
01:04:53
about to cry and turns away, I was just like this is so
01:04:57
heartbreaking, it's so sad, so sad and then they go on and like
01:05:01
continue because they have to exactly and he actually wants to
01:05:05
leave and he's like fuck this, I'm out of here.
01:05:07
And unfortunately, oh, it's just so sad, yeah.
01:05:11
And so they end up all having to go.
01:05:13
Speaker 1: And then they realize when I see why does I'm
01:05:18
forgetting, even though we just watched it.
01:05:20
Why does jack basically say, no , you can't go back?
01:05:24
Speaker 2: it's not really that explained, but but I think at
01:05:26
this point the I think he's more like, if we show up in a
01:05:31
configuration other than what we're supposed to be, that
01:05:35
they're going to freak out and just kill us all.
01:05:37
All right.
01:05:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess.
01:05:38
Speaker 2: Right, I, that's what I think, but I don't think
01:05:41
that's well fleshed out either, cause I think at that point I
01:05:43
would have been like, too bad, I'm.
01:05:53
Speaker 1: I like too bad.
01:05:53
I'm totally like the fact that they all didn't just turn around
01:05:54
and ditch michael right in the woods, but I guess because saeed
01:05:56
was coming to.
01:05:56
Speaker 2: They wanted to like jack anyway, wanted to make sure
01:05:57
that saeed wasn't abandoned.
01:05:58
Yeah, it's like half brain plan to, so they carry on yeah and
01:06:00
then they realize, kind of at a point when the smoke is going
01:06:03
off, they're still arguing on and off and they're nowhere near
01:06:07
where they're supposed to be the look on jack's face when he
01:06:11
says why are we not going that way?
01:06:13
Speaker 4: he's like I'm taking you to be like it's the fucking
01:06:15
lies that are still coming out of that man's mouth, like it's
01:06:19
just you could tell it's just like betrayal after betrayal
01:06:22
after betrayal, like they're still, they're still having to
01:06:25
help him, I know, and he's still fucking them over.
01:06:29
Speaker 1: Exactly, exactly, like at this point they know
01:06:32
what he's done, yeah, and they're still like, okay, we're
01:06:34
going along with this because maybe we're going to get.
01:06:36
Walt back, deal with you later.
01:06:38
And he's still lying to their faces, yeah.
01:06:41
Speaker 4: Fuck, at least at this point, tell them the truth,
01:06:43
tell them everything Exactly there everything exactly.
01:06:45
There's no point in lying, because they're not stupid.
01:06:47
Oh, and.
01:06:48
Speaker 1: But then when they get attacked and like when like
01:06:51
kate goes down and jack lifts her up and like he goes down,
01:06:54
it's like, oh, that was like powerful, stressful so stressful
01:06:58
, like first story goes down and they all run.
01:07:00
Oh and and hurley's like, just like scared like that was like
01:07:05
oh my god, he's so scared he should not be there no, and
01:07:08
that's what I think, that's what pissed me off the most.
01:07:09
Speaker 2: When that happens is like you just look around, like
01:07:11
so you're getting hit, like it's hard, and they're like we're
01:07:14
gonna abandon him, but it's like you gotta do what you gotta do
01:07:16
and then hurley's hiding, and it's like that's exactly what I
01:07:19
said too like he shouldn't be here this is not what hurley
01:07:22
does.
01:07:22
No, and why did you bring him into this?
01:07:24
Like michael, you're an asshole , jack kind of a bit of an
01:07:27
asshole too for letting him making him do this and all this
01:07:30
stuff, and it's like, yeah.
01:07:31
And then even what I found really powerful was, even after
01:07:34
jack's hit, he still he's still trying to get away, and that, to
01:07:38
me, is like jack.
01:07:38
In a nutshell is like he's not ever gonna stop trying no,
01:07:41
exactly, he can't and then they're all taken and that's
01:07:45
kind of like they're in and out of it and you see the people
01:07:47
coming up like oh, it's so scary so let's talk before we move on
01:07:52
to like the hatch stuff.
01:07:53
Speaker 1: Let's finish up with saeed and them and the boat.
01:07:55
What do you guys think of the foot?
01:07:58
Speaker 4: I did not care for that foot, why does it only?
01:08:01
Speaker 2: I love saeed's line, though yeah, I don't know it's
01:08:03
more disturbing that it's missing like that the rest of
01:08:07
it's missing, or that it has four toes.
01:08:10
Well, if you knew what the rest of it was that was missing,
01:08:13
maybe the toe thing wouldn't bother you so much.
01:08:15
So I'm going to say that it's missing.
01:08:18
Speaker 4: Because I saw it In my stream.
01:08:20
I'm like where's the rest of it ?
01:08:22
And then he says that thing about the toes and I was like is
01:08:25
there actually only four fucking?
01:08:26
Toes there are about the toes and I was like is there actually
01:08:28
only four fucking toes?
01:08:28
Speaker 1: there are, and then I look and I'm like that's worse,
01:08:30
that is that is worse very bizarre.
01:08:33
We do.
01:08:33
We do see that thing in its entirety, at one point
01:08:35
throughout the rest of the series.
01:08:36
So you will several times actually, it'll make more sense
01:08:40
maybe or less, uh yeah, I don't know if it makes more sense, but
01:08:43
you at least get to see it.
01:08:44
But yeah, no.
01:08:45
And then, like really that's about it, like saeed finds the
01:08:48
empty camp and sees that it's all a hoax and it's all a hoax,
01:08:50
right and even, even the hatch, even their hatch is not real
01:08:53
fake.
01:08:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly if you remember when michael was there
01:08:56
they had people guarding it and like it really is a nice like.
01:08:59
It shows you like the level of like, deception and everything
01:09:04
that goes into his fucking nuts yeah, yeah.
01:09:08
Speaker 1: Um, I want to talk about that deception a bit more,
01:09:10
but should we move on to something else?
01:09:13
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, let's move on to everything else.
01:09:15
And that level of deception and going into kind of what they're
01:09:17
capable of I think really ties together at those end scenes
01:09:21
with Ben Agreed.
01:09:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, so let's come back to that.
01:09:23
Then Hatch, so we got Locke, we got Echo, we got Charlie and
01:09:31
then Desmond, of course, like this fab four going on.
01:09:32
I don't know what do you want to talk about first?
01:09:35
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's hard Like Desmond.
01:09:36
To me it was just like we also didn't talk about the rest of
01:09:40
his off-island stuff either.
01:09:41
No, that's true, we really like .
01:09:43
Speaker 1: Desmond to me, is the real MVP of this episode
01:09:45
because man is he just like shelling out the wisdom left and
01:09:49
right yeah, I mean, it's like, like you said, I think we saw
01:09:54
technically two episodes, I think, but it was sort of like a
01:09:57
continuation yeah like the season premiere.
01:10:01
So like, really only like, very shortly did we see him before
01:10:04
and, and like you said too, like we only just get introduced to
01:10:08
penny this episode and by the end of it you're just fucking
01:10:11
rooting for them as if they've been in this show the whole time
01:10:13
.
01:10:13
Speaker 2: Yep, like all of a sudden they are just like the
01:10:17
show and I think that's what's really so fucking good about
01:10:21
this show because, when you think about it, the top two
01:10:24
characters of the screen rant list and that we agreed with and
01:10:28
I think most people would neither of them are introduced
01:10:32
until the second season that's rare for a show totally right
01:10:36
like you're telling me that the and the thing is you know that
01:10:39
the creators and stuff knew this .
01:10:42
Like this is all planned out.
01:10:43
So it's like they knew that some of the most important
01:10:46
storytelling characters, development, etc.
01:10:48
Was not even going to come from what we've spent a year and a
01:10:51
half being invested in.
01:10:53
Speaker 1: Well, yes and no.
01:10:53
Like it's interesting to me to when we find out interesting
01:10:57
trivia like Ben was only really supposed to be three episodes,
01:11:01
yeah.
01:11:02
Like so it's like so, they knew he'd be in there, but like he
01:11:04
wasn't going to be as big a character, and then obviously
01:11:06
becomes amazing and yeah, let's get him in here there, but like
01:11:08
he wasn't going to be as big a character, and then obviously
01:11:08
becomes amazing and yeah okay, let's get him in here.
01:11:10
Speaker 2: But, desmond, clearly they had a plan for desmond, I
01:11:12
mean more just like this idea that they know that they can do
01:11:16
this I see right like that they're not like they're not
01:11:19
pigeonholing themselves to.
01:11:20
Okay, we started this show with matthew fox and now matthew fox
01:11:24
has to be the only person that matters yeah um, for the six
01:11:27
seasons he's contracted for, or whatever.
01:11:29
Right, it's like they're willing to turn things on its
01:11:31
head.
01:11:32
Speaker 1: Oh, exactly, I love that.
01:11:33
Okay, so Desmond's flashback when he's at the tour to stad,
01:11:38
about to run up the thing, and Penny shows up and she says her
01:11:41
line I have a lot of money.
01:11:43
With a lot of money and determination, you can find
01:11:46
anyone.
01:11:46
So there's a little foreshadow, yeah, but also, all right, help
01:11:51
me understand this a little bit .
01:11:52
So she's basically there to be like I still love you.
01:11:57
Speaker 2: We can be together.
01:11:58
You're here now.
01:11:59
Speaker 1: We're together, let's just be together.
01:12:01
Why doesn't Desmond agree with that?
01:12:04
So, what's this whole thing?
01:12:05
I have to get my honor back, like what?
01:12:07
Speaker 2: I think we have to go back to kind of like even how
01:12:09
he ends up doing this, like he's clearly at that point training
01:12:11
for this race race around the world that libby gives her his
01:12:16
boat oh, libby, that's right and it's named after her because
01:12:20
it's her husband's boat and all this beautiful stuff.
01:12:23
And so he's clearly like very invested in this idea that he
01:12:27
has to do this race, he has to win the, his father-in-law's
01:12:30
race, like all the stuff, to the point where, like, he takes
01:12:33
this from the stranger and he's clearly getting into it when,
01:12:36
when we see them, clearly whatever happened that landed
01:12:40
him in jail is very problematic for him and like she said, like
01:12:46
I know you're going to carry that, etc.
01:12:47
And I think, whatever that is tied into how his, how woodmore
01:12:53
sees him, he, he believes he has to get all of that right before
01:12:59
he can like fully commit to being with penny.
01:13:02
I personally find that very sad and not what penny seems to
01:13:09
believe to be the case.
01:13:10
Speaker 1: I agree I'm just like dude.
01:13:13
She's here saying I don't fucking care.
01:13:15
Yeah, I want you right now as you are, and he's like no I
01:13:17
can't I gotta prove to your dad I'm a man like get lost.
01:13:21
I know that was annoying I I find that.
01:13:23
Speaker 2: Well, the whole race around the world thing I find
01:13:24
stupid too.
01:13:25
Speaker 1: But to be honest, like but I guess they gotta get
01:13:27
him somehow.
01:13:28
He's gonna do it for love, amanda.
01:13:30
Speaker 2: He's gonna do it for love um, especially when he
01:13:33
reads like I guess.
01:13:34
I guess part of the problem is if he had read and we didn't
01:13:40
even talk about that.
01:13:41
I freaking love that he has a book, that he carries with him.
01:13:45
I love that it's a charles dickens book.
01:13:46
I love that he's saving a char Charles Dickens book to be the
01:13:49
last book he ever reads His choice interesting to me in
01:13:52
terms of which Charles Dickens book that is.
01:13:54
But fine, I agree, charles Dickens should be the last thing
01:13:56
most of us read before we die.
01:13:58
If he had actually read that book and had opened it and had
01:14:02
that letter, I think things would be a lot different.
01:14:05
Because I think that's what he realizes and why he's okay with
01:14:09
where he's at in life now is because he realizes that he had
01:14:14
nothing to prove to her and nothing to prove to himself yeah
01:14:17
and that that whole letter and the whole I like put this on
01:14:20
instagram the other day because I fucking love that quote so
01:14:22
much, when he's like all, when she says all you really need is
01:14:25
someone who loves you, like one person who loves you, and you
01:14:27
have her, and I literally cry every time.
01:14:29
I read that so beautiful, but he didn't know that right, like
01:14:34
he didn't, I think he thought he had to prove to himself and her
01:14:38
and charles woodmore and all this stuff and what we'll see
01:14:41
throughout with desmond is he's starting to realize that the
01:14:44
only person, the only two people that matter for him and penny
01:14:47
are him and Penny.
01:14:48
Yeah, and that's how it should be.
01:14:49
Who cares what other people think?
01:14:51
Who cares what Charles would more things?
01:14:52
Who cares what everyone else thinks?
01:14:53
You have to be okay with you and she has to be okay with her,
01:14:57
and you guys have to be okay with yourselves as a pairing.
01:15:01
Speaker 1: Yeah.
01:15:02
Speaker 2: The rest of the world doesn't matter.
01:15:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think he just unfortunately realized he's
01:15:07
taking the long road, right yeah?
01:15:10
Speaker 3: and he's letting his pride get in the way like he
01:15:12
says he wants his honor back, but he's letting his pride get
01:15:14
in the way of love and you cannot do that.
01:15:17
Speaker 2: It's very sad, so sad , and cost them a lot of time,
01:15:20
which breaks my freaking heart exactly, yeah, um, where else in
01:15:26
the, in the flashbacks do we go with Desmond?
01:15:28
We then see him, kind of like how he ends up on the island we
01:15:31
see him with Kelvin.
01:15:32
And then all the stuff that falls apart.
01:15:34
Speaker 1: I don't think we need to talk too much about Kelvin,
01:15:36
because it's like he just like basically spends three years
01:15:39
with Kelvin in the hatch.
01:15:40
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's pretty self-explanatory.
01:15:43
Speaker 1: There's some interesting tidbits.
01:15:44
Like we see him drawing the map that Radzinski started and like
01:15:48
we hear this name Radzinski a few times.
01:15:50
We've heard it before, we'll hear it again.
01:15:52
Radzinski becomes a major character later on, but like
01:15:56
there's nothing too earth shattering in those flashbacks
01:16:01
in the hatch.
01:16:01
I mean it's sad when, like later on, when you get close to
01:16:05
the hatch imploding, when you see him like he hears John and
01:16:10
all that stuff.
01:16:10
Speaker 2: So let's talk about on island hatch stuff yeah,
01:16:12
because, like, what we realize is that, like and you kind of
01:16:15
touched upon and we're gonna talk about later is like desmond
01:16:17
goes through a lot of shit in the hatch.
01:16:18
That probably should have informed what happens on island
01:16:24
a little bit more but we have mr john lock emo john, emo John
01:16:28
being like, and that was like don't get me wrong like it's sad
01:16:31
.
01:16:31
I don't know if I bought his crying in the forest or whatever
01:16:36
.
01:16:36
Speaker 4: I didn't.
01:16:36
No, that was weird, but his little fight with Echo at the
01:16:38
beginning, and Echo is so cool when he catches his own stick.
01:16:43
Speaker 2: I know that was amazing.
01:16:44
Speaker 1: Amazing, oh, my God.
01:16:45
Speaker 2: What I don't understand and I was going to
01:16:47
ask this and I made a note about this is okay.
01:16:48
So John has now decided he doesn't believe in this anymore
01:16:52
and he has good reasons when he's talking to people about it.
01:16:54
And how Boone?
01:16:55
We touched on this already when we were talking about the
01:16:57
character rankings.
01:16:58
Why Boone still matters is because he's still affecting
01:17:00
everyone and one of the people he's.
01:17:02
His faith is enduring faith for the loss of people, for the
01:17:08
loss of experience, loss of time , for the loss of whatever, and
01:17:14
he doesn't believe it anymore.
01:17:15
I understand that there is not a single part of me that doesn't
01:17:19
empathize with john.
01:17:21
What john lock is feeling totally.
01:17:23
Why does he care if other people don't believe?
01:17:26
Speaker 1: oh my god, I wrote that down like why can't he not
01:17:29
just let it go?
01:17:30
Speaker 2: just walk away, then and let echo do what echo is
01:17:32
going to do.
01:17:32
You're willing to fight him for this, yeah I don't get that
01:17:36
either.
01:17:36
Speaker 1: I don't get it like we've talked about his inability
01:17:39
to also let things go just like jack yeah but, like at this
01:17:42
point, it's almost like he's so obsessed with it the other way.
01:17:46
Now he has to prove, yeah, again how right he is.
01:17:49
He's doing the exact same goddamn thing, which is opposite
01:17:52
, yeah, essentially.
01:17:53
And again he's not not caring who he who gets hurt, agreed,
01:17:57
and it's like so, yeah, on the one hand, it's great to see him
01:18:00
be like taking a little bit of accountability for boone dying
01:18:03
and all that stuff, but it's like you're not learning
01:18:05
anything from it, because here you are getting other people
01:18:08
hurt, you're letting someone blow up dynamite in a hatch I
01:18:12
know, and that's the thing, like even that conversation in the
01:18:14
beginning, when he's like I gotta destroy and he's going to
01:18:15
destroy it and echo's like I don't want you to to the point
01:18:18
where I'm going to physically stop you, he's just so do it,
01:18:22
let echo do it if, and the whole not letting go thing.
01:18:25
Speaker 2: I feel like that is when he can't physically let go
01:18:27
of participating.
01:18:28
Yeah, but to me like just walk away then yeah, exactly he
01:18:32
doesn't.
01:18:32
And then, yeah, he comes back with desmond and he's like we
01:18:35
have to prove, we have to prove this and you're gonna help me do
01:18:38
this and all this stuff.
01:18:40
And it's like you know, desmond , I think, is just still quite
01:18:43
drunk and quite emotional and quite whatever.
01:18:45
So I think he goes along with it and then, as he's
01:18:48
experiencing it with Locke, he's obviously coming to the
01:18:52
realization yeah, I mean, I think, like I'm willing to give
01:18:58
the benefit of the doubt and accept that explanation because,
01:19:01
like I think a big part of it is saying like they literally
01:19:05
only had four weeks to film this before it aired.
01:19:07
Speaker 1: They probably had even a shorter window before
01:19:10
that to write it.
01:19:11
So I'm sure there's a few gaps right.
01:19:13
So yeah, I'll suspend that sort of disbelief and agree with
01:19:16
what you're saying about it Like yeah he was drunk and super
01:19:19
emotional and and as he's sobering up and in there we're
01:19:21
going to just say it's all starting to come back to him.
01:19:24
It should have been there in the first place.
01:19:26
Speaker 2: And you know, another thing we didn't talk about with
01:19:27
the like Kate team of it all is they come across that field, if
01:19:32
you will, of the tubes.
01:19:34
And so then again it's this idea like well, that's not real.
01:19:43
Then right, that part.
01:19:44
And then you see lock, kind of having that conversation with
01:19:46
him too.
01:19:46
So even at that point you're like, okay, so what, why are all
01:19:48
these tubes here?
01:19:49
What does this mean?
01:19:50
And so then you're kind of like , okay, that was bullshit.
01:19:53
And then you go back to desmond and lock and desmond's like or
01:19:57
that was the test Desmond's.
01:19:59
Speaker 1: like you got it wrong .
01:20:00
Speaker 2: Yeah.
01:20:00
Speaker 1: What if it's the other way around?
01:20:02
Speaker 2: Yeah.
01:20:02
And that's it, and again it just reminds us that, like we
01:20:05
don't know Exactly, Like no one does.
01:20:08
Speaker 4: To be honest, no one knows.
01:20:09
Speaker 1: Except John In that moment he knows Rolling my eyes.
01:20:13
Speaker 2: Yeah me off because it's like you.
01:20:15
At any given point, john lock, as a human being experiencing
01:20:19
this in real time, has the tiniest amount of information.
01:20:22
Yeah exactly and he does not wait like.
01:20:26
Him and jack are actually super funny to me, because jack is
01:20:29
like the complete opposite he won't make a move until he has
01:20:31
all the information and lock like, never wants information
01:20:35
and and makes moves constantly with the little tidbits of
01:20:38
information he's like working with at the time.
01:20:42
And they both like.
01:20:43
They both need to come together and be like.
01:20:44
There's a way through all of this.
01:20:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.
01:20:47
Speaker 2: But he won't do it, and so now it's that this is the
01:20:50
wrong thing and he has to prove it to everyone.
01:20:53
And then we see Desmond kind of slowly be like no, no, this
01:20:57
doesn't feel right.
01:20:58
Speaker 1: This isn't making sense buddy.
01:21:00
Speaker 2: And yeah.
01:21:01
Speaker 1: I mean, it was like it was crazy when it started,
01:21:05
the countdown ended and the hieroglyphics came up and the
01:21:08
jiggling began.
01:21:09
Oh my God, and like yeah it was so good Like so amazingly so
01:21:15
well done filmed and acted and, like you, you're simultaneously
01:21:21
saying like fuck you, john, because he's like I was wrong.
01:21:23
It's like, yeah, you were wrong .
01:21:24
And look what's happening.
01:21:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, when echo comes in.
01:21:27
He's like I was wrong.
01:21:28
Yeah, I would say so, but you know that part too.
01:21:35
Like we're all over the place.
01:21:36
It's so hard because it's so chaotic in a way.
01:21:37
But it's such a good episode when echoes like his echo looks
01:21:40
crazy, like everyone looks crazy at different points.
01:21:42
But then when echo charlie's like what are you doing?
01:21:45
We gotta stop.
01:21:45
Charlie's actually kind of funny in that moment where he's
01:21:47
like trying to talk everyone down yeah exactly and then he's
01:21:51
like why are you doing this?
01:21:51
and echo, like he's just so funny to me, I love him so much
01:21:55
he doesn't take.
01:21:56
He's like I'm busy so I don't have time to illustrate to you
01:21:58
this with my words.
01:21:59
Yeah, just whips charlie's belt off and throws it at the wall
01:22:04
and it's just like you see that it's stuck to the wall, and and
01:22:08
then he's like, oh, okay, I'm gonna go yeah I like I'll see
01:22:11
myself yeah and it's so funny because that's the thing, right,
01:22:14
and we we've seen that from the beginning.
01:22:16
Like something is at play here, and calvin's explanation to
01:22:20
desmond at a certain point clearly kind of went one in in
01:22:24
one ear and out the other, with desmond, yeah, and I think
01:22:26
that's.
01:22:27
It is really what it is.
01:22:28
It's like, as he's putting all this together, like he wasn't in
01:22:30
a good place when he came back from killing calvin yeah, so
01:22:33
like he maybe didn't realize how severe everything was yeah and
01:22:36
then he started to also lose faith in himself.
01:22:39
And then also, you know, he's seeing this printer, he's seeing
01:22:42
this and he's learning from john in real time, like okay,
01:22:46
like this is serious, like this does mean something and this is
01:22:49
what it means when he says I think I crashed your plane, that
01:22:55
moment lives in my mind rent free, since it aired on tv, like
01:22:59
I'll never forget that moment it's just like I crashed your
01:23:02
plane yeah, that is like one of the pivotal lost moments for me
01:23:05
I know I got chills.
01:23:06
It's so good, yeah, so good.
01:23:08
He starts going through that thing and it's so funny because
01:23:11
when you look at it I did think, even the first time I watched
01:23:14
it, that it had something to do with the numbers, because, like
01:23:18
you can see when he's locks, looking at the other one, like
01:23:20
it's clearly dates and it's clearly accepted, so it's like
01:23:23
it kind of makes sense that that's what it?
01:23:24
would be, but if it means anything, we still don't ever
01:23:28
know.
01:23:28
Yeah, so when you see that it correlates with their plane
01:23:31
coming down, exact system failure.
01:23:33
Speaker 1: System failure, plane crash chills so fucking I mean
01:23:38
head to toe chills everyone want to know how they got there well
01:23:41
, and that's that's one of the things I was thinking of before
01:23:43
we started, like recording, was we got an answer, a pretty big
01:23:48
one.
01:23:49
Speaker 2: We know why the plane crashed now yeah, because
01:23:51
desmond forgot to fucking hit the button, because he killed
01:23:53
inman and was late getting back to that.
01:23:55
Speaker 1: She's like I gotta run, yeah that's crazy it's so
01:23:59
crazy because of that.
01:24:00
Speaker 2: Like it's just, it's that whole like butterfly effect
01:24:03
type thing that people talk about too.
01:24:04
Like, like none of this can be a coincidence, because how is it
01:24:08
possible that libby gave desmond the boat and then that's
01:24:12
the reason desmond's there and then desmond being there is
01:24:14
reason that a plane libby is on crashes into the ocean right
01:24:20
like it's just it's in it's nuts .
01:24:22
But yes, for people who are like we don't get answers, guess
01:24:25
what?
01:24:25
Why they crashed?
01:24:26
Speaker 1: because desmond was late to hit the button exactly,
01:24:29
and a big electromagnetic whatever came and sucked the
01:24:32
plane and broke it apart, ripped it in half yeah, oh, oh, yeah
01:24:37
okay so there's a few things we got to talk about.
01:24:39
Still like, I mean the fail safe.
01:24:42
Speaker 2: I don't quite fully understand I don't think you're
01:24:45
meant to yet.
01:24:45
Really okay, that's good, desmond survived it that's true,
01:24:48
charlie.
01:24:49
Speaker 1: He did annoyed the hell out of me in that final
01:24:52
scene, charlie claire, yeah, it was weird.
01:24:55
Speaker 4: I can't talk about that there's something weird
01:24:57
about it, like it was so annoying like oh, he's
01:25:00
everything that's wrong with men .
01:25:01
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, kip you're not anything that's wrong with
01:25:04
men, but charlie is everything that's wrong with men, because
01:25:07
he goes through this fucking experience and he's like oh,
01:25:10
nothing happened.
01:25:11
Speaker 1: What are you talking about?
01:25:12
Speaker 2: he's like the thing he's happiest about is that
01:25:15
where's lock and echo he's?
01:25:16
Speaker 1: like oh, they're not back yet.
01:25:17
Oh well, kiss me yeah, like, and does he not give a shit that
01:25:21
they're probably dead?
01:25:23
Speaker 2: no, because claire's happy with him again I know and
01:25:26
almost dying, did it?
01:25:27
So who cares right?
01:25:28
Speaker 1: and he's acting all that matters arrogant and rock
01:25:31
starry and I'm like oh, you're disgusting, I hate it, I hate it
01:25:34
like hated it he's like oh I I hate I can't I?
01:25:37
Speaker 2: really like it's coming out in like just little,
01:25:40
like short bursts of anger, because it just literally pisses
01:25:43
me off so much number five that's what she like yeah that's
01:25:47
when she's like and don't get me wrong again I understand that
01:25:49
trauma and like almost losing someone can really show you that
01:25:54
.
01:25:54
I fully believe that, but I don't again don't think it was
01:25:56
fleshed out enough like we don't see her like worrying about him
01:25:59
or being so elated when he came back.
01:26:02
It was just like it seemed more like she was happy with his like
01:26:05
weirdo attitude than the fact that he, like came back alive
01:26:08
which is clearly what it is like yeah, it's like okay, no
01:26:12
problems are fixed.
01:26:12
Speaker 1: Okay, cool the final scene.
01:26:15
Well, actually I want to say like, how cool it was, like when
01:26:19
desmond flips the fail safe and the sky turns purple or bright
01:26:25
or whatever.
01:26:25
I thought that was so cool, like everyone is just like
01:26:28
freaking out and like what did that do?
01:26:30
And like the others, have clearly never experienced this
01:26:33
before so even they're like what the fuck is going on.
01:26:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, like I thought that was so cool.
01:26:37
It was so cool and just like the idea that he did it, because
01:26:39
he like fixed and we have no idea if lock is okay, we have no
01:26:42
idea if echo is okay, we have no idea if desmond is okay, but
01:26:45
we know that whatever it was caused this effect and caused it
01:26:50
.
01:26:50
So penny, who's clearly been looking yeah, and that's the
01:26:53
other thing, because he's like I think we found it because a big
01:26:57
electromagnetic charge went off , so penny had to have known.
01:27:00
Penny clearly knew like she set up this, like there's, so it's
01:27:05
so nuanced, right, because it's like she set up this station to
01:27:09
be looking for electromagnetic energy yeah and then that burst
01:27:15
of electromagnetic energy led them to believe that they found
01:27:19
it, which I am assuming means the island.
01:27:21
I would have think so yeah, so she knows enough to look for
01:27:24
electromagnetic output, to find the island that she must know.
01:27:28
Desmond is on.
01:27:30
Speaker 1: So interesting fact, they filmed us.
01:27:32
They filmed a different scene that was originally supposed to
01:27:34
be that type of thing where originally she was going to be
01:27:38
in a conference conference room with her dad at his business and
01:27:41
someone was going to burst through the door and be like we
01:27:44
think we found it oh and like, so her dad was going to be
01:27:48
involved so, but then they just did this other one with penny
01:27:50
and these guys in the antarctic I got chills either way like
01:27:54
even when you were describing it , I was like oh, like, yeah,
01:27:56
like what you're saying, amanda, like she has some idea that
01:28:00
he's on an island with electromagnetism involved
01:28:03
somehow we don't know how she knows that yet, but she's
01:28:06
looking for him yeah and she says that in the beginning, with
01:28:08
enough money and determination you can find anyone.
01:28:11
Speaker 2: And she says I have a lot of money I know and I love
01:28:13
that and I love that they're gonna do so and their stuff is
01:28:17
beautiful their conversations, her loving him, that letter.
01:28:20
I'm obsessed with them.
01:28:21
He has these beautiful moments where he's like super wise to
01:28:25
Locke and all this stuff about how, like I don't know why you
01:28:28
lost faith, but like it is, you know, like he's just a gorgeous
01:28:31
character and I could talk about him all day.
01:28:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's great, I love him.
01:28:34
Speaker 2: But I think what we have to finish the discussion on
01:28:36
is they get they're on that dock, yeah.
01:28:41
Speaker 4: Yeah, and then we see Fenry come out.
01:28:44
And Fenry is terrifying, even more so than when he would just
01:28:49
smile creepily.
01:28:51
Speaker 1: He is the man in charge.
01:28:52
Well, he's clearly the leader.
01:28:52
Speaker 4: The confidence in that walk.
01:28:55
Speaker 1: A hundred percent.
01:28:56
Speaker 4: Barefoot and dirty.
01:29:04
Speaker 1: Cut face.
01:29:04
You are still terrified.
01:29:05
I know, my god, you're right.
01:29:05
That's the confidence he has.
01:29:06
He's just like this is my show and like gives tom shit for
01:29:11
taking his beard off.
01:29:12
So that leads into the deception.
01:29:14
Because ben, or well, ben, whatever we've said it, fenry is
01:29:18
ben.
01:29:18
Ben clearly has this thing where he's trying to fake them
01:29:22
out into thinking they're like bush people.
01:29:24
Yeah, like why, why?
01:29:27
And like holy shit, how in depth is this deception?
01:29:31
Speaker 2: well, I think I think what it was is they wanted
01:29:34
people to think that they were like not very advanced right, so
01:29:39
like they can maybe manipulate them a bit more by being like
01:29:42
they're not that scary, they're just kind of.
01:29:44
But what I don't understand is like ethan infiltrated them as
01:29:47
like a pretty regular person like you know what I mean like
01:29:50
they're clearly not just bush people.
01:29:52
So I don't really understand why at a certain point, why
01:29:55
they've given up, why they don't just give up that.
01:29:56
Yeah, exactly.
01:29:58
And I guess we'll see what happens now.
01:30:00
But and yeah, this idea that he clearly this whole thing, the
01:30:04
Michael conversation and how he's like, I didn't like what
01:30:07
they did, but we're you know, we've you followed through on
01:30:10
your word, we're going to follow through on ours, so let him go
01:30:15
with Walt.
01:30:16
Speaker 1: He tells him they're the good we're the good guys,
01:30:18
michael.
01:30:18
I was like okay, no one believes that, no one believes
01:30:23
that you're currently holding four people hostage on their
01:30:28
knees.
01:30:29
Speaker 2: But you're the good guys and you clearly wanted Kate
01:30:31
and Sawyer and Jack.
01:30:34
Why do you want them?
01:30:34
Why do you need them?
01:30:36
Speaker 1: I don't get why they brought Hurley.
01:30:37
If they're just going to let him go like yeah, they say so,
01:30:37
your job is to tell people not to come jack.
01:30:38
Why do you want them?
01:30:38
And okay, so why do you need them?
01:30:38
I don't get why they brought hurley.
01:30:39
If they're just gonna let him go like yeah, they say so, your
01:30:41
job is to tell people not to come, like if they had just not
01:30:44
brought hurley and just had no one would know.
01:30:47
Speaker 2: I just I think that's so weird.
01:30:48
I thought it was kind of silly too yeah I think that was like a
01:30:51
way to like I don't know just have have hurley there.
01:30:54
I think it was honestly so they could have Hurley there.
01:30:56
Speaker 1: When he realized that Libby was yeah, yeah, and that
01:31:01
boob grab, that was so awkward, that's infamous.
01:31:04
Just bloop, bloop, did you?
01:31:06
Speaker 2: see it.
01:31:06
Speaker 4: No.
01:31:07
So when they're.
01:31:08
Yeah, so they're trying to get them.
01:31:10
You know they have to pick them up.
01:31:11
Yeah, just goes straight for both of our breasts, okay, yeah,
01:31:16
and then let's go and like grab some of the actress clearly
01:31:21
made like yeah, just a logistical error there.
01:31:24
Probably meant to go here, yeah no, but it's.
01:31:27
Speaker 1: That's all over the internet oh is it.
01:31:29
That's so funny yeah oh, anyway , so good, and yeah, everything
01:31:34
is so good but, and that's how it ends like yeah, well, I mean
01:31:38
well and, like I said we kind of touched on before.
01:31:40
Speaker 2: But I think a few things just to kind of end on
01:31:43
the facial expressions of sawyer , jack and kate.
01:31:45
The acting on that is so fucking good, and even like when
01:31:49
walt is looking back.
01:31:50
Walt looks back at least twice, twice, yeah, and the acting
01:31:53
there is good too, because he's you can tell he's like he's like
01:31:55
what's going on?
01:31:56
like he's clearly elated to be with michael, clearly elated to
01:31:59
be headed home and to be away from those people but, as you
01:32:02
can see, it dawn on walt like whoa.
01:32:05
We're leaving them tied up gagged with these bad people so
01:32:08
we can leave and he does a couple takes and you know he's
01:32:11
like he's not okay with it exactly michael, what are you
01:32:14
gonna tell this child?
01:32:15
Speaker 1: And the one, michael, has the audacity to say what's
01:32:19
going to happen to my friends, I almost threw my laptop.
01:32:22
Speaker 2: Oh, me too.
01:32:24
Speaker 4: I was so angry.
01:32:25
First of all, do not call them your friends.
01:32:28
Second of all, do not even pretend you give a shit about
01:32:30
these people.
01:32:31
Speaker 2: No, what did you think was going to happen?
01:32:33
Speaker 4: Michael.
01:32:33
Speaker 1: Exactly you dipshit, that's my favorite.
01:32:38
Speaker 2: I've never heard you say that before.
01:32:40
What did you think was going to happen, you, son of a bitch?
01:32:42
Speaker 4: Well, that's the thing, right?
01:32:43
Fuck you.
01:32:44
No, he's such an asshole.
01:32:45
Anyway.
01:32:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then they're taken and they got hoods
01:32:49
put over their heads and then poor.
01:32:51
Hurley, I wonder if Sawyer recognized the weave.
01:32:53
Oh yeah, Remember when he was like like they use a different
01:32:56
weave.
01:32:57
Speaker 4: Yeah, oh man no, but yeah, yeah, poor hurley it's
01:33:01
like basically like get lost.
01:33:03
And then he asks what about my friends?
01:33:04
And yeah, that we believe, yeah .
01:33:07
And then jack, oh, my god, I almost forgot jack gives him a
01:33:10
nod I know like it's okay
01:33:12
Speaker 2: like the step like just yeah that was so beautiful
01:33:15
I don't want to leave my, like he's saying my friends and they
01:33:17
actually care about that and he's like looking like like he
01:33:20
doesn't want to go and then jack's like just nods like this
01:33:22
little nod, like you it's okay, you can leave
01:33:25
Speaker 3: us we're gonna be okay, you save yourself like, so
01:33:27
much is said with that, yeah and matthew fox is a good actor
01:33:30
I know such good actors, such good actors, oh oh boy anyway,
01:33:34
okay, I don't know.
01:33:36
Speaker 1: I'm sure there's things we missed, but it's just
01:33:38
so much.
01:33:38
Speaker 2: It's so much, it's so good.
01:33:41
Speaker 1: I think should we go into the rankings character
01:33:44
rankings.
01:33:45
Speaker 4: All righty.
01:33:46
So I think it's no surprise to anyone that Michael's at number
01:33:49
14 with negative 7.
01:33:52
Then there's Charlie with negative 585.
01:33:55
Then we have Walt 315.
01:33:57
Desmond 350.
01:33:59
Kate starts the top 10 with 525 .
01:34:02
Claire 780.
01:34:04
Locke fell quite a bit to number eight with 1070.
01:34:08
Sawyer is at 1125.
01:34:11
Jack is at 1150.
01:34:13
Jin is at 1275.
01:34:15
Sun is now at number four with 1680.
01:34:18
Echo is at number three with 1695.
01:34:21
Saeed is at number two with 1855.
01:34:24
And then Hurley is still at number one with 2255.
01:34:27
Amazing.
01:34:28
My favorite is the negative 7.
01:34:32
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm going to be honest.
01:34:34
Speaker 4: It's not enough.
01:34:34
It's not enough.
01:34:37
Speaker 2: What about my friends ?
01:34:39
Speaker 4: Yeah, that was a big one, that was like a negative.
01:34:41
No, no.
01:34:43
Speaker 2: You don't get to you never.
01:34:44
Don't ever talk about them again in any way and let alone
01:34:48
as my friends.
01:34:49
Exactly you led your friends to this moment and you knew.
01:34:51
You thought they were going to have them for tea and then let
01:34:53
them go again?
01:34:54
Speaker 4: What is them go again ?
01:34:55
What is going to happen to my friends, your friends?
01:34:56
Speaker 2: are probably going to be killed, like you killed two
01:34:58
other people.
01:34:58
Just go home with your son, forget about this whole place.
01:35:01
What about you know?
01:35:02
Aren't you going to be afraid?
01:35:03
I'm going to tell people?
01:35:03
You're going to tell literally no one because, like what are?
01:35:05
Speaker 1: you going to do that would be helpful.
01:35:07
What ben said there like, oh yeah that was so good, yeah,
01:35:10
okay, I'm not going to give my whole rankings, okay, I will
01:35:13
just tell you the most.
01:35:15
Who got the most points?
01:35:16
This episode was desmond, fair, but the top right now, or the
01:35:22
bottom, is michael, minus 2980.
01:35:24
Keep in mind I've been doing this a lot less than you, but
01:35:27
but that says a lot though.
01:35:28
2980 is almost 3000 I know um, and my top spot is jack with 93
01:35:35
oh wow, are there a lot of people in the negatives then?
01:35:39
Um, I have one, two, not including michael two people in
01:35:45
the negatives so 93, that's it yeah so how many?
01:35:52
Speaker 2: oh man, so if you don't have a lot of points, okay
01:35:54
so hurley is at 74, he's in second place um, I didn't order
01:35:59
them.
01:36:00
Speaker 1: Kate is in third place with 65, so he's in fourth
01:36:04
place with 61, and then bottom is michael charlie's second last
01:36:09
with minus 223.
01:36:11
Yeah he's in third last place with minus 76 really he's not.
01:36:17
Speaker 4: He wasn't as good this season as he was in the
01:36:19
first season.
01:36:19
Speaker 1: I only started ranking at the long con Right,
01:36:23
so halfway through season two, so really any of the good that
01:36:26
Locke had done?
01:36:26
Speaker 2: Yeah.
01:36:27
Speaker 1: Yeah.
01:36:28
Speaker 2: See if he can come back.
01:36:29
Speaker 1: Let's see if he can do a comeback.
01:36:30
Yeah, he might be able to.
01:36:31
Hard to say got.
01:36:34
My MVP of the episode was Desmond and my season MVP is
01:36:37
Jack.
01:36:39
Speaker 4: Nice, nice.
01:36:41
Speaker 2: What's your?
01:36:41
Rating rating on this episode.
01:36:45
Speaker 1: I'm giving it a 9.8.
01:36:46
It's just amazing and we just went all over all the reasons
01:36:53
why.
01:36:53
So I'm just going to keep it short and sweet 9.8.
01:36:55
Season two finale Fucking good TV.
01:36:57
Speaker 2: It's good TV, I think it's like a 9.8 for two finale
01:36:58
fucking good tv, it's good tv.
01:36:59
I think it's like a 9.8 for sure for me too.
01:37:01
Like this is as close to perfection as you can get.
01:37:04
It's hard to give these types of episodes like here, because
01:37:07
there's so much happens that, like you can't I we've had only
01:37:11
a few tens and can't go quite there.
01:37:13
And I find it funny that you said this is this, that the
01:37:16
there's other finales that aren't rated as high, because I
01:37:19
think the third season finale is really good but this is
01:37:23
phenomenal TV and storytelling.
01:37:25
And just because I had also been kind of saying that
01:37:28
Destin's also my MVP for this and I think my season MVP would
01:37:31
be probably Jack.
01:37:35
Speaker 1: Wow, awesome.
01:37:36
Speaker 2: Jack.
01:37:36
He's very consistent and overall, like this episode's a
01:37:39
facial expression I know and like the fact that they like
01:37:42
honestly his like upsetness over what michael did, followed by
01:37:45
his like letting hurley off the hook to leave, like both of
01:37:49
those just were with his eyes, essentially and it's it's they
01:37:53
really have come to love each other, and that's why it's so
01:37:55
heartbreaking to see what michael has done uh, mine's also
01:37:59
a nine eight, so we have a unanimous nine eight.
01:38:04
Speaker 4: Um, yeah, I love this episode.
01:38:05
Uh, episodes maybe, um it.
01:38:10
It gave me all the feels.
01:38:11
The chills made me cry, made me angry, made me rage, like it
01:38:19
just made me do everything, and it takes a pretty special
01:38:22
episode to do that.
01:38:23
Sure does.
01:38:26
Speaker 1: Well, that's it for season two, everybody Season two
01:38:28
.
01:38:28
In the books.
01:38:29
Thanks you all.
01:38:32
Speaker 4: Thank you all everybody.
01:38:33
Thank you all everybody for joining us.
01:38:37
Speaker 2: And hopefully yeah, you found it, as this season is
01:38:40
a roller coaster so hopefully you've enjoyed it and listening
01:38:43
to our takes on it, and we are so excited to be back sooner
01:38:49
rather than later with season three.
01:38:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're going to take just a little break, but
01:38:53
we'll be releasing season three in the not too distant future.
01:38:56
Season three in the not too distant future and, um, you know
01:39:01
, there may be a few little special eps between this ending
01:39:02
and season two or season three starting.
01:39:04
So you might see one pop up if you subscribe.
01:39:06
If you don't subscribe, please do, because we'll be back and we
01:39:09
really love that you're on this journey with us, thank you
01:39:12
absolutely thank you okay, bye, bye.
01:39:16
Speaker 4: Thank you Okay, bye, bye, bye.
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