Ever find yourself chuckling at Sawyer's latest nickname before being tugged into the heartache of Hurley's backstory?
This week on 'Let's Get Lost,' Kippy, Theresa, and Amanda grapple with the emotional rollercoaster or lack thereof, that is, "Lost" Season 2, Episode 18, "Dave." As we dissect Hurley's psyche, Locke's existential woes, and the perpetual dance of deception with Henry Gale, our laughter is as inevitable as our critical musings on character depth and narrative pacing.
Hurley's battle with self-acceptance takes center stage, and boy, does it strike a chord. With Theresa lounging back and the rest of us on the edge of our seats, we scrutinize the fine line "Lost" walks between humour and sensitivity. The mental health facility's portrayal and Hurley's untapped backstory have us questioning the network's choices, even as we're drawn deeper into the intrigue of island life. From the moral entanglements of Jack and Locke's leadership tussle to Fenry's manipulative whispers, our discussion unearths the complexities of survival in the face of unseen forces.
Wrapping up, we're doling out character rankings like candy on Halloween, with MVPs and LVPs sparking as much debate as the latest twists in the show's labyrinthine plot. Join us as we sift through the layers of "Lost," sharing those moments that deliver chills and provoke thought about the nature of reality on the island. Whether you're tuning in during your morning jog or while kicking back at home, let's navigate the enigmas of this beloved TV maze together.
**Spoilers in today's episode from 44:42-44:54 and 49:47-50:21**
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Kip: we're three best friends and we love lost and we love
00:00:14
talking, but even more so we love talking about lost.
00:00:17
So join us for some laughs, good conversation and let's get
00:00:21
lost together.
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Amanda: Hello everybody and welcome back to this week's
00:00:27
episode of let's Get Lost.
00:00:29
I'm your host, amanda, and I'm joined with my dear friends
00:00:33
Kippy and Teresa.
00:00:34
Teresa is currently laying down for this episode.
00:00:38
We're going to see if we will allow her to continue these
00:00:41
weird pursuits in the future.
00:00:42
Kip: Whatever works, whatever works for you, teresa.
00:00:45
Amanda: Thank you.
00:00:45
So how's everyone doing this week?
00:00:47
I feel like so I've been.
00:00:48
I'm going to be honest with you guys.
00:00:49
I've been listening to us because I have become
00:00:52
narcissistic about hearing my own voice on this podcast.
00:00:55
It's actually been really good, because now I don't hate
00:00:57
hearing my voice as much.
00:00:58
Kip: Yeah, it's a good exercise in accepting oneself.
00:01:02
Amanda: And I just get to listen to my two best friends.
00:01:04
Kip: In a room.
00:01:05
Amanda: In a room they like lost .
00:01:07
Don't forget to be your own best friend.
00:01:08
Okay, well, I never in a million years will do that, but
00:01:12
yeah, I was going to say that at my work this week they put a
00:01:18
board up where they want it, Because for where I work we have
00:01:21
to drive a lot.
00:01:21
So they're like, oh, we should do a board of podcast
00:01:24
recommendations and I put our podcast as one of the
00:01:28
recommendations.
00:01:29
Kip: Good yeah, I mean, that's a great idea.
00:01:32
I mean, if we can't be our own advocates, what?
00:01:35
What good is it?
00:01:36
Amanda: But that led me to.
00:01:37
That led me to the question I have for you guys this week
00:01:39
before we.
00:01:39
You know, I'll get right into it, but what do you classify our
00:01:47
podcast as?
00:01:47
Is it entertainment?
00:01:48
Is it TV?
00:01:48
Is it?
00:01:48
Is there a rewatch category at this point?
00:01:51
Kip: I bet you there is on our directory we are TV and film.
00:01:57
I believe it's TV and film.
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Amanda: All right.
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Kip: But I don't know, yeah, maybe entertainment as well.
00:02:04
Amanda: So they didn't have a category that fit to me.
00:02:06
So I erased sports and entertainment, because sports I
00:02:11
mean you don't need sports podcasts.
00:02:14
Kip: They have like 500 sports radio stations.
00:02:17
Just turn on the radio.
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Amanda: Yeah, All right.
00:02:20
So anyway, that's my, my attempt to get us more in the
00:02:23
world.
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There's like 12 people in my workplace so I don't know.
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Kip: I'm going to count the downloads next week.
00:02:30
Amanda: Someone's going to be like what the fuck is this?
00:02:35
Kip: Are you guys ready to hear what we're talking about this
00:02:36
week?
00:02:36
I'm going to read the synopsis for episode 18 of season two,
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dave, written by Edward Kitsis, adam Horowitz and directed by my
00:02:48
guy.
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Theresa: Jack.
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Kip: Bender, all right.
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Libby lends Hurley support when he begins to think the island
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is having a strange effect on him.
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And Locke's sense of purpose is shaken when the prisoner
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provides new information about the hatch.
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Amanda: Yeah, that's pretty good .
00:03:03
Kip: That's actually not bad.
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You know, I'm good with that, I'm satisfied, yeah I like it,
00:03:10
we're so satisfied?
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Theresa: yeah, we have, we're usually we usually go on a rant
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and now we're like don't forget to pull out the disney plus one.
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Amanda: And I don't even think we need it's perfect.
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Yeah, we'll take it um.
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Kip: Yeah all right, so then let's go on to facts and trivia
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okay, I'm ready alright, so IMDB this week rated 8.2 out of 10
00:03:30
okay, another low, low one it's a yeah.
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It's a little low on the general general ratings it's
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another Hurley episode.
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We've already had one this season yep viewers 16.38 million
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right in that meaty middle Sawyer's nickname count.
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Teresa did not like that.
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I said meaty middle.
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Theresa: No, I did not care for that in any way.
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Amanda: Shape or form.
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So I have a question about the Sawyer nickname count.
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Theresa: All right?
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Amanda: Is it just what Sawyer said, or was it all the things?
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Hurley reiterated back at him while he was pummeling him.
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Kip: Oh, amazing.
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No just the ones uttered from Sawyer's lips.
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Perfect, okay, so guesses?
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Amanda: Two he says something offensive to Hurley right before
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that.
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Kip: Three Okay for Sawyer barely being in this episode.
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It is ramp, Ripe, Rampaged.
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Rampant they are rampant there you go Of nicknnames we had five
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nicknames.
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This week.
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Amanda: Okay, he's in that little beginning bit where he's
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kind of an asshole that's where it is okay.
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Kip: So he calls charlie tattoo I like that one and baby napper
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that's my favorite one.
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I like that accurate.
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Amanda: I'm not sure if that's a nickname or just like actually
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his alias he calls Libby Moonbeam, which was so funny.
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Yeah.
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Kip: Sing around Kumbaya and do trust falls.
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The offensive one is Deep Dish.
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He calls Hurley yeah.
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And then of course there's classic Freckles.
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Amanda: Which is cute, but four of the five of them come from
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that one scene where he's Three of them Three of them.
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Kip: Freckles is later and then Deep Dishes is right before he
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gets pummeled Good scene.
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Amanda: I mean.
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Kip: Okay, we're on day 62 on the island, so quite up there.
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Amanda: Oof.
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Kip: Ready for your trivia, mm-hmm.
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All right, only two questions this week, okay, so question
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number one what?
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Amanda: game show did Jorge Garcia recently compete in on
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primetime television?
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Is it that masked singer one Correct oh wow, he played
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Cyclops on Team Bad.
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Kip: I never actually watched it , so I don't know what that
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means Same here.
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Amanda: So I don't watch it because A we don't have cable
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and B I am concerned that it will make me lose respect for
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everyone involved.
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But Jewel won it.
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Oh my God, she's an actual singer, though that makes sense,
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and then released an album of all of the songs she covered on
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it and I was like that's's gross , but I listened to it obviously
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that's gross, but I um so that's the only thing I do.
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I'm aware of it.
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I know who like the judges are and stuff.
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I mean it's kind of a cool concept.
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It does seem to attract more like, like, like a, like
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b-listers, as opposed to like the d-listers that used to be on
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shows like that, yeah, like dancing with the Stars level.
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Kip: It's higher than that.
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Theresa: Yeah, for sure.
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What is the concept?
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Amanda: I don't actually know what it's about they, so it's a
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lot of the time it's singers, but sometimes it's actors,
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sports people.
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They are in like these elaborate costumes that are
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characters like Cyclops, like Jewel was the queen of hearts,
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so she was like in this big elaborate thing, they're very
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elaborate and they're like.
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There's no way you can tell, like who they are by like being
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in it.
00:06:49
Kip: They're almost like mascots .
00:06:51
Yeah, like mascot costumes, okay.
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Amanda: And then they perform each week and then the judges,
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and then they get like a few hints that they're like really
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high level and the judges are supposed to like they pick who
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they want to win or whatever.
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Kip: And then they also try to guess who the celebrity is, and
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then when?
00:07:09
Amanda: they get knocked off, they reveal themselves.
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Kip: I've honestly never seen it but again cause I don't have
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cable TV but I've seen clips of it online and stuff like that.
00:07:20
That's an interesting idea, it seems to be pretty popular.
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Amanda: Yeah, it does, so that that's an interesting idea.
00:07:26
It seems to be pretty popular, yeah it does, and, like I said,
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the only one I know a lot about is that Jewel won it her season.
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Kip: Which makes sense.
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She's a full-blown singer.
00:07:32
Amanda: And I think Demi Lovato's been on it.
00:07:34
There's some bigger.
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They're bigger people.
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There's some people who are still I mean, even I can't think
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off the top of my head, but there's like.
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I definitely remember being like, like seeing it on like
00:07:43
Buzzfeed and stuff, and like seeing who was like voted off
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and being like oh.
00:07:47
Kip: So I wonder how Jorge did, if he did good or bad.
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Amanda: I don't know, yeah, but I did think he was on it.
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But cool, that's good Okay.
00:07:53
Kip: So next question True or false?
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This is the only episode to end with a flashback walt true
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false damn it.
00:08:13
There's only one other one, though, and it's not till season
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six yeah, season six doesn't have flashbacks it does in one
00:08:22
episode flashbacks it does in one episode.
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Amanda: Oh, it does.
00:08:29
Oh, my god, that's so.
00:08:30
I didn't.
00:08:30
Okay, I don't remember.
00:08:31
Oh man, that's quite the flashback, though not again all
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right.
00:08:33
Kip: So, yeah, well, there's actually two.
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Yeah, oh yeah, okay, all right.
00:08:41
So that's it for trivia.
00:08:43
We got one, correct, amanda?
00:08:47
Amanda: One wrong.
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Kip: Teresa.
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Amanda: Yes, please, but hey again as I'm listening to it,
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you've won trivia a lot more than I think.
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You think you have.
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Kip: Yeah, you always think you lose, but you actually win quite
00:08:56
frequently.
00:08:57
Amanda: Well, not like quite frequently, but like enough to
00:08:58
give me a run for my money.
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Theresa: I'm not, I don't test well, Okay.
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Kip: Well, now it's time for my high level takeaway.
00:09:08
Theresa: Yes, High level takeaway with Amanda Okay.
00:09:17
Amanda: Well, that's because Teresa's stream of consciousness
00:09:18
is much more entertaining.
00:09:19
So we have to get this out of the way.
00:09:24
My high level takeaway for this is actually about me.
00:09:25
My high level takeaway for this is actually about me.
00:09:27
My high level takeaway from this is that I my follow-through
00:09:29
needs some work.
00:09:30
Wait, what I'm surprised that I'm even doing the high level
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takeaway still, if it wasn't written on that board?
00:09:36
I don't think I would, because you know what I realized
00:09:40
listening to an episode today.
00:09:41
I said that for the rest of the season my sound was always
00:09:47
going to be a quote from the show a total of two times oh my
00:09:52
god so, yeah, I like as much as teresa has a hard time like
00:09:55
remembering what happened on the show, I have a hard time with
00:09:57
being consistent on top of what we're talking about from the
00:10:00
show because how many books have you read?
00:10:01
None, I mean I've read books, have I read watershed now?
00:10:06
no, but I own it and it's sitting on my desk.
00:10:08
Um, I'm going to do them all before the end of the show,
00:10:12
though they can be the end of this.
00:10:13
Kip: Well, I that that's um brave of you to say, because in
00:10:18
season three, sawyer reads a shit ton I know I'm so excited,
00:10:23
are you?
00:10:24
Amanda: yeah, I am too.
00:10:26
Kip: I'm very excited to hear I'm to read your I mean like to
00:10:28
be fair like oh god, it's me.
00:10:30
Theresa: Margaret's gonna take me like four minutes if you can
00:10:33
ever get past watershed down is that's a.
00:10:36
Kip: That's a slog.
00:10:37
It's a hefty one to start with.
00:10:39
Theresa: There's a weird start, I'm sure it's.
00:10:41
I mean, it's all he found are you gonna read bad twin?
00:10:45
Amanda: maybe, if I can find it, yeah, I thought they released
00:10:47
it.
00:10:48
Kip: But bad twin is the manuscript that they find on the
00:10:51
beach, but I'm pretty sure they made one of it.
00:10:54
And now it's time for theresa's dream of consciousness also, oh
00:11:01
my god, how cute are libyan.
00:11:03
Theresa: Hurley, though.
00:11:03
Do people shave on the island?
00:11:06
Oh, he has his own stash of food.
00:11:08
Um, maybe let's just put it back in the hatch.
00:11:12
Put the food back in the hatch.
00:11:14
Don't get rid of it the way I think you're going to get rid of
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it.
00:11:16
Remember you're on a deserted island.
00:11:19
Oh, okay, yep, we are in fact, wasting food and our limited
00:11:24
resources.
00:11:24
Fantastic, that could have fed some folks for a while.
00:11:35
You know, I get the catharsis of what's happening, but we are
00:11:37
also stranded.
00:11:37
My friend, oh, oh no, all that work, and what did it get them?
00:11:39
Look how excited everyone is for food, because, you know,
00:11:42
stranded on an island, who is that in the rope and PJs that
00:11:46
clearly no one else sees?
00:11:48
I don't like.
00:11:49
Let me follow Hurley.
00:11:51
Oh, no, he fell.
00:11:52
Oh, he's not not seeing things.
00:11:55
I don't understand.
00:11:56
Are we still holding it?
00:11:58
So maybe it's somewhat real.
00:12:00
Hurley seems so secretive, like he's hard to get to know.
00:12:04
She's trying so hard.
00:12:05
You gotta give her a little more to work with Hurley.
00:12:07
I think you can trust her.
00:12:10
What accident, what happened, hurley, that you can't talk
00:12:12
about?
00:12:12
It's Dave.
00:12:13
Oh, he's Dave.
00:12:14
You know this has gotta suck for Locke Stuck in a bed.
00:12:19
Hairline fracture On an island oh, here we go More.
00:12:24
Hair line fracture On an island oh, here we go.
00:12:26
More lies from quote-unquote Henry, nice tribe guy, all these
00:12:29
lies.
00:12:29
Who knows what's real now?
00:12:30
But it does seem a little bit panicked.
00:12:32
Or is that just another front?
00:12:35
Good God, it's hard.
00:12:38
Good for Ana Lucia stopping Zaid from killing him, because
00:12:40
clearly that wasn't a bluff, awkward.
00:12:42
And now John is frustrated because he's not only stuck in
00:12:46
the bed, but now he's completely out of the loop and Jack isn't
00:12:52
going to tell him shit.
00:12:52
Hey, what you buildin' Echo?
00:12:53
Ugh, charlie, right him.
00:12:55
Aw, man, now I want some goldfish.
00:12:58
I really like the vanilla cupcake ones.
00:13:00
Oh, hurley, um, what the fuck?
00:13:08
So Dave is there, but that's not possible.
00:13:09
But then again, anything is possible on this goddamn island.
00:13:11
I think we would have noticed an extra person that he knew
00:13:13
though.
00:13:13
Oh Charlie, with his sarcastic douchery and echoes being nice
00:13:18
because he's a nice person.
00:13:19
Oh, dave really is a bad influence.
00:13:22
Oh, I think I see where this is going.
00:13:24
Ew, he put those pills in his mouth like he was going to dry
00:13:32
salt, but they would have started disintegrating for sure.
00:13:34
Sick, did he just throw out a cookie because it broke.
00:13:35
Come on, sawyer.
00:13:38
Oh, douche move, sawyer, don't make fun.
00:13:40
Oh, oh shit.
00:13:41
I love that Jen is laughing about them fighting, but Sun is
00:13:44
like no, you need to go, stop this.
00:13:45
Wait, when did we move out of the caves?
00:13:48
No one lives there anymore, why not?
00:13:50
Who remembers this?
00:13:51
That peanut butter was never going to fit in that backpack
00:13:54
nicely.
00:13:55
That's a terrible visual of wiping with a leaf.
00:13:59
Ew, is Hurley not so thirsty after eating straight peanut
00:14:04
butter?
00:14:04
He looks so sad.
00:14:06
Who died?
00:14:06
Okay, first of all, no one would die because someone else
00:14:10
is fat.
00:14:10
That's a deck.
00:14:12
Oh, that's awful, that's sad.
00:14:14
He's not responsible for this.
00:14:15
This storyline is sad.
00:14:17
Yep, I called it, I knew it.
00:14:19
He's real to Hurley, but that's it.
00:14:21
Oh, so you went, but it wasn't the end of the episode.
00:14:25
Way to mislead.
00:14:27
All right, be out, hurley, be out, don't join him.
00:14:29
Oh, nope, and he's joining Dave .
00:14:32
Dave sucks, what the heck.
00:14:34
When did he take the keys?
00:14:35
How does he know which key?
00:14:36
Oh, okay, not a far fall out of the window.
00:14:39
So that's something, something you think they'd have.
00:14:41
Other security maybe, like if a window opens, an alarm goes off
00:14:45
.
00:14:45
You know what?
00:14:46
Bye, dave, indeed, and now dave is back.
00:14:50
But why do you mean?
00:14:51
None of it ever happened, dave.
00:14:53
I will say dave is weirdly convincing, except for the libby
00:14:57
part.
00:14:57
That's rude.
00:14:58
This episode is pretty trippy um hurley.
00:15:02
Maybe we just don't listen to dave anymore.
00:15:03
Trippy Um Hurley.
00:15:04
Maybe we just don't listen to Dave anymore.
00:15:06
Oh, look who's up and about.
00:15:06
How fortuitous that the crutches fit Locke ever so
00:15:09
nicely.
00:15:09
Oh, how does one earn minutes with fake Henry?
00:15:12
How come Anna Lucia isn't staying with Locke during the
00:15:17
convo like she did with Saeed?
00:15:18
I feel like fake Henry Fenry, if you will, is still toying
00:15:22
with them.
00:15:23
Do magnets hum Fenry, if you will, is still toying with them.
00:15:25
Do magnets hum?
00:15:25
Fenry doesn't blink much and it's very off-putting.
00:15:28
Oh my god, thank goodness Libby's here to save the day.
00:15:36
Oh, is that what it is?
00:15:36
He's so convinced that Libby could never like him that he
00:15:39
started hallucinating all that bad stuff, because that's more
00:15:40
real to him than the idea of her being into him.
00:15:41
That's sad.
00:15:41
Wait, I'm confused.
00:15:51
Kip: She was in there too, la fine, okay.
00:15:53
Oh my god, wiping what the leaf oh, it was so I didn't even
00:16:02
think until you said that, how unsettling that is as a visual
00:16:07
it's so gross, it's so graphic just poop wiping.
00:16:13
Amanda: I did not even think why is it so disturbing to you guys
00:16:16
?
00:16:16
Kip: well, it's just like why is it necessary?
00:16:18
Is this supposed to?
00:16:21
I don't know.
00:16:22
I just didn't think of it and then, when you said it, I was
00:16:25
like, oh, it does look like he's wiping poop.
00:16:29
Theresa: Yeah, it's just kind of gross.
00:16:31
Oh boy, I'm not that mature, okay, sorry.
00:16:36
Kip: Yeah, good recap there, teresa.
00:16:39
I think you captured a lot of it really well.
00:16:42
Theresa: Thank you.
00:16:44
Kip: What do you want to talk about first?
00:16:47
Amanda: Well, this is like a weird episode because, first of
00:16:51
all, like, has everyone had an episode this season?
00:16:54
Like we already?
00:16:55
I just listened to everybody hates Hugo today.
00:16:57
So, like, if it feels fresh for me, we've already had a Hugo
00:17:01
episode this season.
00:17:04
Kip: I think so, because we're already in episode 18.
00:17:07
I'm pretty sure we've had everybody.
00:17:10
Theresa: That's what I'm thinking.
00:17:10
I'm just looking at the cast list right now and I feel like
00:17:15
yes.
00:17:15
Kip: We've also had a few doubles already as well.
00:17:17
I know, and that's why I feel like I'd rather have another
00:17:21
double of Sawyer, or even Kate, than another Hurley episode yeah
00:17:27
, you know it's funny because I usually don't look forward to
00:17:30
the Hurley episodes even though I love Hurley because I find
00:17:34
that they are often almost like I've said this before how I
00:17:39
don't, like, how they seem to give every other character like
00:17:42
such depth and like a lot a lot to work with as a baxter and his
00:17:45
are almost like jokes.
00:17:47
So it was nice to see an episode where they actually are able to
00:17:50
give him a little bit of depth and like something to work with
00:17:53
in terms of you know the pain and and what sort of might be
00:17:57
affecting him off island, not just other than winning the
00:17:59
lottery, um, but even that like they still made some of the like
00:18:06
when he was seeing dave in the woods and stuff.
00:18:08
They still played that like funny orchestral music was like
00:18:13
like instead of like when it's sawyer or kate or anybody else
00:18:16
seeing something, it's always like this ominous creepy music
00:18:19
yeah, and it's like mystery, right, but because it's hugo,
00:18:22
it's like so, but I at least they did's Hugo, it's like ha ha
00:18:24
ha.
00:18:24
So, but I at least they did give him some and his story was
00:18:27
very sad.
00:18:28
Theresa: So sad.
00:18:29
Kip: It was like a, an odd it's.
00:18:31
It's sort of there are a lot of people that don't like it, like
00:18:35
it's on a lot of list of like, least favorite episodes.
00:18:37
Amanda: Dave in particular.
00:18:38
Yeah, so I mean again because, like I think, just like I
00:18:45
understand wanting to like learn people's backstory, and I
00:18:48
understand wanting like clearly Libby's at the end, and like
00:18:58
when you touch on that in your stream of consciousness, that
00:19:00
like Libby's at the end of the hospital facility, so like that
00:19:07
part's important.
00:19:08
but I'm just not sure like when, when such heavy things are kind
00:19:10
of happening in some of the storylines, like this whole
00:19:11
Henry thing, like I, just what sucks is a little bit is like as
00:19:13
an audience member like I I also like Hurley and I I love
00:19:17
the idea of learning everyone's backstories or whatever but I'm
00:19:22
right now I'm just kind of like I want more of that stuff.
00:19:24
I would almost like to have seen some of this when we're
00:19:29
still building up to some stuff and having it kind of like.
00:19:31
Do you know what I'm trying?
00:19:33
to say I want to see the Henry stuff right now.
00:19:35
Kip: I know and I think what maybe we're falling into is the
00:19:40
network thing where they had so many episodes to fill.
00:19:43
And they clearly want whatever is going to happen with Henry to
00:19:47
lead up right to the end.
00:19:48
So it's like they needed.
00:19:49
They needed a pause on the Henry.
00:19:52
Yeah, and like we.
00:19:53
So we got a little snippets of Henry in the, in the shaft or
00:19:57
the hatch, but like to make it a Hurley episode.
00:20:01
They're like, okay, we can just sort of like do something
00:20:03
that's not Henry focused and cause next episode.
00:20:07
I don't remember what it is, but I'm sure it's very Henry
00:20:12
focused.
00:20:14
Amanda: And I do get that Like, like in in some other shows, do
00:20:17
it even more like pronounced, like there'll be like a whole
00:20:20
episode where they don't even like look at that and so like.
00:20:23
I appreciate that they're still giving us like little tidbits
00:20:26
and little like you know, breadcrumbs or whatever.
00:20:29
But I just like, I think, to throw an episode kind of like
00:20:32
this, like I think that there's a reason why it ends up on on
00:20:34
like most like dislike lists and why the ratings are lower.
00:20:37
It's like it's not just like.
00:20:38
It's, it's like again another way that I think that the like
00:20:42
show didn't do hurley or jorge garcia like justice but being
00:20:46
like okay, we gotta do like even if that's what it is like, we
00:20:48
gotta do some filler.
00:20:49
It's like, well, like, why does it have to be hurley storyline?
00:20:52
That kind of like pays the price yeah and like this.
00:20:56
Kip: So yeah, like we talked about his, his backstory is very
00:20:59
sad, but I know it's never brought up again.
00:21:03
Like never and like that's a threat.
00:21:06
Like I get that it happened before he won the lottery so his
00:21:11
circumstances changed.
00:21:11
But like this whole tragedy of killing people, or feeling like
00:21:17
this guilt, this insane guilt that he has, that he killed
00:21:20
people by going out on the deck is never brought up again.
00:21:24
Amanda: So I'm also struggling a bit with that.
00:21:26
So, like I like.
00:21:30
Kip: So this is all we ever hear about that well, like we hear
00:21:33
about, like him being in the facility, obviously like in
00:21:36
which, by the way, I'm so curious like how I wonder how
00:21:42
people who work in facilities like that feel about the
00:21:44
portrayal of facilities on Hollywood or in TV shows Cause I
00:21:48
have no idea how accurate that is, or I just I'm curious about
00:21:52
that.
00:21:52
But we do hear about him being in there but, like the specific
00:21:57
reason is, is never touched on again.
00:22:00
Amanda: And like even in the episode where he won lottery,
00:22:02
like it's not really talked about, no, it's like he's better
00:22:05
.
00:22:05
Where he won lottery, like it's not really talked about, no,
00:22:06
it's like he's better now and he's like out and working and
00:22:07
doing his thing and trying to lose weight, or whatever, but
00:22:10
like so that that kind of.
00:22:12
That's the other thing that bothers me a little bit about
00:22:14
this episode and again, maybe it's because I just listened to
00:22:17
us talk about everybody loves her Hugo and that's just so
00:22:19
funny to me.
00:22:20
That's when, I just happened to listen to, most recently, but in
00:22:24
that one, because the food plays a role in that one too,
00:22:29
like essentially it's.
00:22:29
This is like almost like the bookend to that episode, because
00:22:32
it's like in that one he finds all the hatch food and is
00:22:35
dealing with that.
00:22:36
I'm reeling from that, and now it's this food yeah and so what
00:22:39
I don't like is in that episode the previous episode we're
00:22:42
supposed to learn like it's the lottery and the like everyone
00:22:45
turning on him and the like gluttony that comes with that
00:22:49
that's driving this like on island fear of participating in
00:22:52
this.
00:22:53
But now it's this like, like mental health thing and the
00:22:58
killing of people, like it just doesn't even really track with
00:23:00
what they've already told us about like his his own eating
00:23:04
disorder.
00:23:04
Kip: Yeah, exactly, I know it's inconsistent, yeah, and, and
00:23:09
they, I get that, I, I agree.
00:23:12
I think it is in, because there's a lot about this episode
00:23:14
that is frustrating in terms of where they take the story in
00:23:17
the future, because a lot of it is just never brought up again
00:23:20
and they leave some pretty pretty heavy cliffhangers that
00:23:23
are never addressed, and so, like this is one of those
00:23:26
episodes that just sort of fall because of they just can only do
00:23:33
so much, I guess, and they just decide to take things in
00:23:36
different ways, which is unfortunate, because it comes at
00:23:38
, like you said, the cost of of jorge garcia as an actor and his
00:23:42
character of hurley.
00:23:43
Amanda: Well, it's just like, just like you know what I'm
00:23:45
going to be honest, If they wanted to run this like I won
00:23:50
the lottery and everyone hates me and all this stuff and it's
00:23:54
really hard to please everyone when you have all this stuff and
00:23:56
gluttony ruins people I can get on board with that and I can
00:24:01
get on board with it and not being carried out to its
00:24:03
fruition of a storyline.
00:24:04
This is a pretty serious storyline.
00:24:07
Yeah, like this is like I have so many questions and like I was
00:24:12
going to, I couldn't remember if we learned more about it.
00:24:14
But like I, this isn't just like he feels guilt about like
00:24:20
hurting people, like a bunch of people died and now he's in a
00:24:23
facility for that.
00:24:23
He's clearly very damaged.
00:24:25
He's hallucinating a human being, exactly Like how did we
00:24:29
go from this?
00:24:30
To like how he is now?
00:24:31
And I guess maybe we're supposed to see that we haven't
00:24:34
completely gone away from it.
00:24:35
But then it's like well, what has he been doing in the
00:24:36
meantime?
00:24:37
Like does no one care about this man?
00:24:39
Kip: Yeah, time, like does no one care about this man?
00:24:41
Yeah, like is he, is he just always on clonazepam?
00:24:43
Pam but then it's never been brought up before and so and
00:24:48
maybe I I really don't think they ever bring up the the deck
00:24:51
story again and maybe I'm wrong, but I really don't think so.
00:24:55
But yeah, like dave as a character is I did not like dave
00:24:58
as a character I is I did not like Dave as a character.
00:25:00
I mean we're not supposed to, obviously but, even just the way
00:25:03
he was played, it was so weird.
00:25:05
Theresa: He's very creepy and off-putting, to be honest.
00:25:09
Kip: Did you guys find it weird how he never made eye contact
00:25:13
with Hurley?
00:25:14
And I guess that was maybe intentional, but even just
00:25:17
looking, he was always looking down and kind of giving these
00:25:20
weird side eyes to him when they're talking in the jungle,
00:25:25
specifically, it's very off-putting.
00:25:26
Amanda: Yeah, I don't I hated it , you know, and like there.
00:25:28
I just I think, yeah, like it's like.
00:25:29
Okay, let's give him some cool stuff and cool being like
00:25:32
serious, not like I think it's cool yeah, stuff happened to him
00:25:35
, but, um, like let's give him some more.
00:25:37
And then it kind of just ends up being this like this all came
00:25:42
up again because, like it's sad , the food.
00:25:46
The food.
00:25:46
But and then because he doesn't think Libby could like him and
00:25:50
like it's all sad, but it's like these are clearly like
00:25:53
deep-seated traumas that he has.
00:26:09
Kip: And again nine times out of ten.
00:26:10
We're supposed to just ignore all that and be like he's just
00:26:11
the goofy fat guy, like no, like well, even even I enjoyed the
00:26:13
scene where he attacks sawyer because it's very deserved.
00:26:14
But again, like it's these, it's these light-hearted moments
00:26:15
like the comedic relief, yeah and it's like he's not given
00:26:18
that that same depth or respect that the other characters get
00:26:24
when they're dealing with those equally as traumatic things in
00:26:27
their life.
00:26:28
Amanda: Yeah, like this is like I said.
00:26:30
It's almost like everything we talked about last time about how
00:26:32
they don't give him enough and they don't give him something
00:26:34
serious.
00:26:34
It's almost like they hear you and they're like okay, we got to
00:26:37
give him more.
00:26:37
But then it's like they still don't treat it.
00:26:39
That's clearly not what they want to utilize him for, if you
00:26:42
think about like Jack's issues daddy issues really.
00:26:46
Kip: He's just afraid he can't live up to his dad's
00:26:48
expectations and like a lot comes out of that.
00:26:52
Compared to what Hurley went through and his trauma, so
00:26:57
insanely different and like arguably way worse.
00:27:00
Amanda: A hundred percent.
00:27:04
Kip: And yet jack are given these like emmy award winning.
00:27:05
Amanda: Like well, he never won an emmy, but like emmy worthy
00:27:08
yeah performances and like direction and all this stuff,
00:27:12
and again we just get that well, I, to be fair, I always kind of
00:27:16
feel that way about jack next to almost anyone, because I feel
00:27:19
like if you take anyone's backstory like kate's like you
00:27:23
don't have to like it.
00:27:24
Kip: But like that's true and sorry watch this like mom get
00:27:28
killed by his dad fair, jack is always just like close me.
00:27:31
Amanda: My dad doesn't think I'm as good a surgeon as him like
00:27:34
your dad's also a raging alcoholic.
00:27:36
Like I don't know that we need to take his like word for this
00:27:39
jack.
00:27:39
Theresa: Like I don't know if you want to live up to daddy
00:27:42
right now.
00:27:43
Amanda: But oh man.
00:27:43
But like, yeah, I agree, though Like it's like Hurley.
00:27:46
But then it's like that's what bothers me when, like you say
00:27:50
that we don't hear about it really again, because it's like
00:27:52
we get hit over the head with, like Jack's and I know that
00:27:57
Hurley is a little bit more of a secondary character, but he's
00:28:00
still part of the main cast we get hit over the head with Jack
00:28:03
and Kate and Locke and Sawyer and it's like this is something
00:28:07
that has teeth.
00:28:08
Kip: Totally.
00:28:09
Amanda: He almost killed himself in this episode.
00:28:12
I know he almost took his own life.
00:28:14
Kip: When I was thinking about the themes of this episode.
00:28:18
You have eating disorders, severe mental health issues when
00:28:25
you're hallucinating, people Suicide like these insanely deep
00:28:29
, troubling, traumatic themes that they could have ran with
00:28:32
and actually done something really good with.
00:28:34
But it's just, they're like nah , we want to make people laugh.
00:28:38
Amanda: And then in the end it's like all of this is coming from
00:28:40
a place of like.
00:28:41
We got extra food again.
00:28:42
Kip: And.
00:28:43
Amanda: I don't think Libby actually likes me.
00:28:44
Exactly, and her liking me is going to be enough to fix it,
00:28:48
because it's kind of a dangerous message that this episode sends
00:28:51
, like I don't know, it's just and it's not a criticism of
00:28:55
Jorge Garcia.
00:28:56
Not at all, because he's great and the direction is good.
00:29:03
Kip: it's like, honestly, the writing like that I'm like yeah,
00:29:05
this poor guy are, we are and are.
00:29:06
Are we looking at it through like has just time changed?
00:29:09
How we view these things looking at it from a 2024 lens
00:29:13
of how they talk about these things from well, this would
00:29:15
have been what?
00:29:16
2005 or 6 probably yeah, yeah, 2006.
00:29:20
Yeah, early into 2006.
00:29:23
Because a lot has changed in the way people talk about those
00:29:28
themes nowadays as well.
00:29:30
But I still think you know, you think of the writers and you
00:29:34
think of the producers, and they were doing a lot of other great
00:29:39
things with equally serious themes and stuff and yeah, I
00:29:43
agree, amanda, like bringing it back to food and will the girl
00:29:47
actually like me?
00:29:47
Is is actually reductive.
00:29:51
Theresa: Totally yeah, exactly.
00:29:54
Kip: And it takes away watching it now.
00:29:56
Amanda: It takes away from me from being able to get into it
00:30:00
and and give it some respect me from being able to get into it
00:30:06
and and give it some respect and like again, like I'm, you know
00:30:07
that's like if you want him to be the comic relief, you want
00:30:09
him to whatever.
00:30:09
Like I get that back.
00:30:10
Then, in particular, like character tropes were a lot more
00:30:13
common and there has to be some levity to this show because
00:30:16
like it is exceptionally serious , but like levity in the form of
00:30:19
them, like playing golf or like exactly playing that weird
00:30:22
poker game like to me.
00:30:23
That's the kind of levity I'm okay with like, not at the
00:30:26
expense of like, an entire, like theme of essentially, like I
00:30:32
said, like trauma, like and like you said, you like laid out
00:30:35
this is like eating disorders, like severe schizophrenia, like
00:30:39
mental health, like hallucination, things, and then
00:30:41
like he was contemplating suicide absolutely yes, he was
00:30:46
gonna do it exactly.
00:30:48
Kip: It's like, yeah, so okay, um, let's move on.
00:30:52
Let's get off this for now.
00:30:54
We'll probably come back to it, but let's go into the hatch
00:30:56
stuff.
00:30:56
So, um, how did it start?
00:31:01
Oh right, jack was treating lock's leg yeah, he's got a
00:31:05
hairline fracture it's just so funny to me.
00:31:08
Theresa: Jack does not like lock no, he really doesn't like it.
00:31:13
Amanda: No, not at all like zero love or respect is hot between
00:31:16
those men, right now yeah exactly but like to the point
00:31:20
where I'm like jack, you're still like kind of acting in a
00:31:21
quasi-professional manner right now.
00:31:22
Yeah, exactly, but like to the point where I'm like jack,
00:31:22
you're still like kind of acting in a quasi-professional manner
00:31:24
right now and you're actually being kind of an asshole oh, it
00:31:28
was funny.
00:31:29
Kip: I mean, he wasn't wrong, he doesn't have an x-ray machine,
00:31:32
he can't tell if it's broken.
00:31:33
But like um, I thought it was funny when lock's laying in bed
00:31:38
he's like what's happening?
00:31:39
What's happening?
00:31:40
Theresa: and jack's like.
00:31:40
I got it oh, I know if he could give him the middle finger.
00:31:45
Kip: He just did it 100%.
00:31:46
Theresa: That's like Locke's worst nightmare he can't walk,
00:31:49
he can't move around and he doesn't know what's going on.
00:31:52
Amanda: And Jack's involved and Jack won't tell him what's
00:31:55
happening but like, do you ever just like, yeah, just like, get
00:32:00
the impression that Jack just wants to, yeah, like if he could
00:32:04
get, if he, if Locke disappeared, jack would not be
00:32:07
upset.
00:32:08
Kip: No, he does not care for that man at all and I don't
00:32:13
blame him because Locke is really like.
00:32:16
There are times where Locke challenges Jack in a good way,
00:32:21
like there are times where Locke challenges Jack in a good way,
00:32:23
like by by challenging his lack of beliefs, challenging the way
00:32:26
he like, thinks and does things.
00:32:28
But a lot of times I feel like Locke just also wants to get
00:32:32
under Jack's skin and like they're both so bad for each
00:32:35
other, like they just bring out the worst in each other.
00:32:38
Theresa: Oh, literally Yep, A hundred percent.
00:32:39
And like yeah, it's just like, again it's like a little bit
00:32:40
much at this point.
00:32:40
Amanda: They just bring out the worst in each other.
00:32:42
Oh, literally, yep, a hundred percent, and like, yeah, it's
00:32:43
just like again, it's like a little a little bit much at this
00:32:45
point.
00:32:45
Like I get this feeling like dad, or that Jack is just always
00:32:48
like a disappointed dad, like chastising lock, for like,
00:32:53
what's happening right now Isn't really locks fault, though,
00:32:56
either.
00:32:56
Kip: Right, no, no, there right.
00:33:04
No, no, it's not, it's not um, but he got his crutches.
00:33:05
I liked.
00:33:05
Amanda: I mean it was a good, it was good acting that terry
00:33:06
couldn't when they mentioned the wheelchair and immediately was
00:33:07
like terrified oh yeah I will not go back in a wheelchair yeah
00:33:11
, and like that was really hard last episode, when he is like
00:33:14
did, look yeah, oh, looking messed you know it's sad, like
00:33:17
you know he.
00:33:18
I hate that for him, but like it's just a weird thing like
00:33:22
what do we think of saeed and anna lucia?
00:33:25
Kip: loved it yeah, I thought it was good.
00:33:27
I I don't necessarily buy that he would have shot him like I
00:33:32
thought that was kind of extreme .
00:33:33
I I don't know.
00:33:34
He kind of went a little further than I think he would
00:33:38
have.
00:33:39
I don't know, know, but do you?
00:33:42
Amanda: think, like I don't know , like I don't know enough about
00:33:43
guns, Like was it also her grabbing it that caused it, like
00:33:47
would it be one of those things where, if she hadn't interfered
00:33:49
, it still would have been fine, or was he actually going to
00:33:51
shoot him?
00:33:51
Kip: I feel like he was going to shoot him.
00:33:53
Amanda: I thought he was going to shoot him.
00:33:55
Kip: That's the vibe I got yeah, like it was gonna happen.
00:34:06
He was ready to kill him and that a little bit like why?
00:34:08
Well, as as we're talking about it, I'm wondering if it's like
00:34:10
okay, so saeed suspected him from the beginning.
00:34:12
Eat the shit out of him and like never trusted him then he's now
00:34:17
caught him in all his lies.
00:34:19
He's now caught him in the depths of the.
00:34:21
He's now caught him in the depths of the how much this guy
00:34:23
has lied in terms of like he keeps catching him in the lies
00:34:28
of when he pulls out that dollar bill and and it's like now he
00:34:31
knows that he was just lying again, yeah, and like I think
00:34:35
he's just like.
00:34:35
You know what I am just done with you and your lies.
00:34:37
You do nothing but lie and manipulate.
00:34:47
Amanda: And it's time for this to end like maybe that's what it
00:34:49
was.
00:34:49
I do feel like he's one of those guys that like his training and
00:34:50
his just natural instincts and his personality like, because my
00:34:52
first thing was kind of like why would he kill him when he
00:34:54
think they're just kind of getting somewhere with him?
00:34:56
But then, as you were going through that kip, I realized
00:34:58
that like I think you're right and I think his personality of
00:35:01
like knowing his training, his whatever is, is he's like we're
00:35:04
not just getting somewhere with him yeah, exactly we're getting
00:35:06
nowhere, we're getting zero places with him.
00:35:08
Kip: He's, he's useless at this point.
00:35:10
Theresa: Why are we keeping him because nothing he says is the
00:35:13
truth.
00:35:13
Amanda: Clearly but then the question becomes of who they are
00:35:17
as people.
00:35:18
When they're done with him, that means he's being murdered.
00:35:21
Right like because I think that even like I don't know that any
00:35:26
of them like would go to that other than maybe saeed right
00:35:31
like being done with him, I think they would maybe get like
00:35:33
let him go or keep him locked up , but like to be like I'm going
00:35:37
to kill you is like a pretty severe yes.
00:35:40
Kip: Very severe.
00:35:41
Theresa: But then I try to remember also that, like it
00:35:43
wasn't that long ago that Shannon was shot by, that's true
00:35:47
.
00:35:47
Ana Lucia, because of quote, unquote them who now, they're
00:35:53
pretty sure Fenry is one of I like Fenry.
00:35:58
Amanda: And that's why I asked you guys what you thought of it,
00:36:00
what kind of what's happening there?
00:36:02
Because that's what I was trying to figure out is is it
00:36:04
like his like instincts and training and military background
00:36:09
and interrogator, torturer background, of like we've gotten
00:36:12
everything we can for this guy, he's disposable now, yeah.
00:36:15
Or was it the like emotional, like it's like there's these two
00:36:19
sides of say it was it his like logical part that was taking
00:36:22
over in there or was it his emotional part?
00:36:25
Kip: probably both I think it was both.
00:36:26
I think the emotional part got him to that point and then the
00:36:30
back of his mind.
00:36:30
He he is thinking logically about it like there's there's no
00:36:34
point keeping this guy around um, what was I gonna say?
00:36:38
yeah, because he does admit now that he is one of them.
00:36:42
Cause he basically says all that stuff about he'll kill me.
00:36:47
I can't tell you anything.
00:36:49
Like oh, the guy with the beard , oh, he's no one, he's nothing.
00:36:52
You have no idea who you're dealing with.
00:36:54
Like basically does his Fenry thing and like tries to play it
00:36:58
off Like he's a nobody.
00:36:59
My favorite line was later when thing and like tries to play it
00:37:04
off like he's a nobody.
00:37:05
My favorite line was later when oh, we'll come back to it.
00:37:08
But when he says I'm done lying .
00:37:09
Amanda: Like like oh, fenry, you're only getting started but
00:37:11
it's just like that, too is like like would be frustrating,
00:37:16
because it's like, yeah, he keeps lying.
00:37:19
And it's like every time they confront him it's like, oh,
00:37:22
actually, what was this?
00:37:24
And it was this and it was this, and it's like I don't know,
00:37:27
like I just don't know what Fenry's I mean.
00:37:31
I know what Fenry's endgame is, but at this point I'm like what
00:37:36
do you think is going to happen here?
00:37:37
Because Locke is kind of right when he's like talking to jack
00:37:47
and he's like he could have left .
00:37:48
He could have left me here, but he like stayed and blah, blah,
00:37:49
blah and it's like.
00:37:50
Kip: He's like no, he thought his yeah story was going to be
00:37:51
bought.
00:37:51
He's staying because he thought he had them fooled.
00:37:53
Yeah, and I guess maybe he thinks he can integrate further
00:37:57
and get as much information and somehow plan his own escape,
00:38:00
probably.
00:38:02
Amanda: And then there's a part of me that's like knowing how
00:38:05
the storyline is going to unfold .
00:38:06
I'm like.
00:38:07
I'm like I almost don't buy that.
00:38:09
He would think that either, though, and I still go back to
00:38:13
when we talked about it last time, when he sent them to the
00:38:16
plane or to the air balloon.
00:38:18
And it's like did he just not think that they would dig the
00:38:22
body up?
00:38:22
Kip: Yeah.
00:38:24
Amanda: And so now he knows what lengths they're willing to go
00:38:27
to.
00:38:27
So now, what's his plan?
00:38:29
Because he's still lying.
00:38:31
Kip: He's still lying, but I think he is lying, cause he's
00:38:32
still lying.
00:38:32
He's still lying, but I think he is lying.
00:38:33
I think he's just lying until he can figure out a way to get
00:38:36
out.
00:38:36
Cause he lost his chance last week or last yesterday, whatever
00:38:40
in the show, because he thought he'd be okay.
00:38:43
But now he's like shit, I need to leave and I, if he?
00:38:47
He's thinking I can lie and manipulate until I can figure
00:38:50
out how I'm going to get out of here.
00:38:51
Yeah, because he will not tell the truth.
00:38:54
No, clearly, clearly, clearly but yeah, how does one earn five
00:38:58
minutes with Henry Gale?
00:38:59
That was funny.
00:39:00
I thought the same thing, teresa.
00:39:02
Amanda: Yeah, he's like I've earned this.
00:39:03
Like how, why?
00:39:06
I kind of was like I kind of wish she hadn't.
00:39:08
She had when like what do you mean you've earned?
00:39:11
Kip: and that's where, like his hubris, comes into it a lot he
00:39:14
always thinks that, like he's either done more or is doing
00:39:18
more or deserves more exactly yeah and uh, lock just annoyed
00:39:23
me even further when you can tell he's just being manipulated
00:39:28
again.
00:39:28
Yep, by fenry.
00:39:29
Fail just like lock.
00:39:33
Enough, stop it.
00:39:34
You're smarter than this, but I guess he's not.
00:39:37
Theresa: Yeah I just oh, it sucks me, sucked in lock is just
00:39:40
like it's not doing anything for me this to go around.
00:39:43
Kip: He's just really bothering me that, how easily he's being
00:39:46
manipulated well, the good news is that stops one day.
00:39:51
Well, I don't know what exactly you're referencing.
00:39:56
Amanda: I mean it's sarcasm.
00:39:58
Kip: Are you talking about?
00:39:58
It doesn't stop, oh, okay, it's continually manipulated by
00:40:02
Henry Gale.
00:40:02
And many others.
00:40:03
All of time, all of time, all of time, oh God.
00:40:06
Amanda: Literally, they're out there in the universe.
00:40:10
Right now, henry Gale is manipulating a John Locke in
00:40:13
some form.
00:40:17
Kip: I cannot believe your stream of consciousness did not
00:40:18
have a reaction to Mr Echo building the church.
00:40:23
Theresa: It's because Charlie was there.
00:40:24
He's such a boner killer.
00:40:25
Fair Truth.
00:40:30
Amanda: They ruined everything, yeah.
00:40:32
Kip: I was also annoyed, like Charlie shut up yeah, like I.
00:40:34
Amanda: Just what are we doing?
00:40:35
Why are we doing this?
00:40:36
You're not gonna tell me like and walk away.
00:40:39
Charlie, yeah, exactly, please walk towards the ocean keep
00:40:44
walking, never stop don't ask any more questions like what do
00:40:49
you mean?
00:40:50
Kip: like I also liked kate's with sorry when she's sort of
00:40:55
laughing at him oh yeah, it was cute and yeah, jen laughing like
00:40:58
that was my favorite.
00:41:00
Theresa: Yeah, I know like, and then I started laughing I know,
00:41:02
because jen's like oh, those two jen's like let's, let's see how
00:41:05
this plays out and sounds like hello, yeah, stop them.
00:41:09
Amanda: That was so funny, that was a good little scene but it
00:41:12
was sad too, right, right, because it's like Hurley's lost
00:41:15
it because of how much he's hurting.
00:41:17
And because Sawyer's hitting on something that's hurting him.
00:41:22
Yeah, you know, and that's just sad, but his reaction was funny
00:41:26
yeah of course.
00:41:28
Honestly, it was Jin.
00:41:30
Kip: Jin was what was funny about it?
00:41:32
Just being like laughing about it.
00:41:35
Amanda: I will say there was two points in this episode, though,
00:41:37
where I did get chills.
00:41:38
I did get a chill when you realize that Dave, not real like
00:41:41
, I got goosebumps still, even though like yeah, the picture he
00:41:43
goes to show the picture.
00:41:45
I was like oh, I'm not sure.
00:41:47
So similarly how you were like I wonder what people think about
00:41:52
like the facilities being depicted in this and that and
00:41:56
how realistic it is.
00:41:57
As someone who has a job that is often depicted in in in
00:42:01
multimedia.
00:42:02
It's often not accurate, so I I would assume that they also
00:42:07
take liberties with this type of job.
00:42:09
I would think so what I didn't like was I'm not sure and I'm
00:42:12
not a psychologist, but I'm not sure someone would present that
00:42:18
to their patient in that way.
00:42:20
I didn't think so either that seems very aggressive to just
00:42:25
unless someone was really hurting by their delusion, I'd
00:42:29
have to think you wouldn't be confronted with it in that
00:42:32
manner.
00:42:35
Kip: That's what I thought.
00:42:36
Amanda: I'm like, are you really gonna show?
00:42:37
This jesus, I was like okie dokie, but for you know
00:42:40
storytelling purposes that was.
00:42:41
I did get goosebumps I was like oh and then I did get
00:42:45
goosebumps at the end when you realize libby is also in the
00:42:49
yeah, I mean there's a few things like in the photo.
00:42:54
Kip: It's dark like, it looks like it's dark outside in the
00:42:58
windows, but when they're taking the picture it's daylight, so
00:43:00
of course that was just a production thing, yeah, but
00:43:04
people went crazy with that in theories back in the day oh,
00:43:07
really they're like oh, it's a fake photo.
00:43:08
Maybe dave, israel and stuff, all the like, all these things,
00:43:11
but it's not.
00:43:11
Um, and then when you do see libby, you, you again see that
00:43:13
it's a fake photo.
00:43:14
Maybe Dave is real and stuff all these things, but it's not.
00:43:15
And then when you do see Libby, you again see that it's
00:43:16
daylight, but the photo shows it being like nighttime, like the
00:43:20
Polaroid photo.
00:43:21
So yeah, back in the day people were going crazy with that
00:43:25
theory that they were up to something, but that was just a
00:43:26
production thing.
00:43:27
They're like ah, shit, yeah Dang it, we didn't think
00:43:31
everyone was going to catch on to that.
00:43:32
Amanda: The other thing.
00:43:33
I just thought it was like a lighting thing, because
00:43:35
Polaroids are, like, notoriously terrible for lighting.
00:43:37
Yeah, they're not exactly.
00:43:38
This is just like overexposed.
00:43:40
Kip: Or when he's like have you heard of Photoshop or Kinko's?
00:43:42
I'm like it's a Polaroid picture.
00:43:49
Amanda: Yeah, you can do.
00:43:51
We think about the whole like numbers thing.
00:43:54
Kip: Yeah, I mean that was interesting.
00:43:55
I, I we do learn a bit more about that, like about Hurley
00:44:01
and the numbers and the fella who's in there with him, who is
00:44:05
real, like Dave's theory about none of this being real because
00:44:13
you're seeing the numbers everywhere and all this stuff.
00:44:15
Yeah, like someone who's in a emotionally fragile state.
00:44:20
That could be convincing to be, like, yeah, I guess no wonder I
00:44:23
am seeing those numbers.
00:44:24
Oh, it's starting to make sense .
00:44:25
It was neat to see, like, that's where he heard the
00:44:28
numbers for the first time.
00:44:30
Amanda: Yeah, and it's very interesting.
00:44:31
So they obviously like that is real and that guy is like
00:44:35
maniacally saying them over and over again to himself and those
00:44:38
are the numbers that hurley ultimately so I'm gonna say
00:44:41
something a spoiler.
00:44:42
Kip: He emphasizes the number eight when he's going for eight,
00:44:45
fifteen, sixteen, and eight eights hurley's candidate number
00:44:48
.
00:44:48
Amanda: That's interesting.
00:44:49
Oh, that is cool, that is really cool so that was really
00:44:52
neat um, I love that, but then, like you, still have to wonder.
00:44:56
Like, so he clearly gets the numbers from someone and that's
00:45:00
why he plays them yeah and we have to assume at this point,
00:45:04
wink wink, that that man got the numbers from the island.
00:45:10
But it's still crazy at this point like that.
00:45:14
Then he would end up on the island, yeah right, so like
00:45:16
you're still kind of closing that loop and it's still like an
00:45:19
unbelievable.
00:45:20
So I do kind of like wonder even that, like like when dave's
00:45:26
kind of confronting him with that and it's obviously his own
00:45:28
mind um, why that hasn't been an issue for him more yet, like
00:45:33
when he first sees the hatch numbers back in the end of
00:45:36
season one or whatever, and he's like no, we can't go in there.
00:45:38
We have to, whatever the numbers are.
00:45:39
Bad news, dude.
00:45:40
It's not like he's like what the fuck like how?
00:45:44
Are these numbers here?
00:45:45
And why am I here?
00:45:46
He's just like the numbers bring bad luck because I used
00:45:48
them to win the lottery and then everyone hated me yeah right,
00:45:51
like even that's like not quite as like.
00:45:54
Hurley's a smart, capable, nuanced, emotive human.
00:46:01
He's rational, he has feelings like why aren't we, why isn't he
00:46:06
like that kind of wondering a bit more about that?
00:46:08
Kip: like I know it's a fair question.
00:46:10
It is an omission, I think, and the show's part to not address
00:46:14
that more.
00:46:15
But I mean, how, I guess?
00:46:16
How could they, without being kind of hit over the head with?
00:46:18
Amanda: it, yeah, because it's like that is weird very weird
00:46:22
yeah what are the odds like?
00:46:23
say even like he's someone from the island who was working there
00:46:27
.
00:46:27
Whatever he ends up in the same thing.
00:46:28
Fine, like that to me would already be like pretty unusual,
00:46:32
but then it's like to then also have hurley then end up there.
00:46:35
It's.
00:46:36
It's almost like at that point like I'm on team jack, like this
00:46:39
is like nah, this isn't like, this isn't real this isn't, it's
00:46:43
just coincidence.
00:46:43
Yeah, you know, like it has to almost be coincidence, because
00:46:46
like it can't be anything else exactly, yeah, um, I'm just
00:46:52
looking here.
00:46:53
Kip: Oh, the numbers from Leonard.
00:46:55
Do you think Hurley started saying dude because of Dave, or
00:46:59
Dave said dude because it was Hurley's imagination?
00:47:03
Amanda: I mean, I think like the psychological piece of this
00:47:07
would would suggest that anything that Dave does is a
00:47:10
result of Hurley.
00:47:12
Kip: I noticed Dave said dude a lot as well.
00:47:14
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
00:47:17
I'd say Hurley yeah.
00:47:20
Amanda: What a sad delusion.
00:47:24
Kip: I know Like he couldn't have like this.
00:47:26
Amanda: You know, the brain works in weird ways.
00:47:28
Like that's what his brain conjures up.
00:47:31
Kip: Yeah, Sad I know, I mean, I liked, I really liked libby's
00:47:37
story about what was the name of the man who broke his leg like
00:47:41
I thought that was very well done in terms of, like talking
00:47:45
him out of this.
00:47:46
None of this happened because and like it's insulting to me as
00:47:50
a real person with a real life that you would tell me you made
00:47:54
me up or that kind of thing.
00:47:55
I like that speech.
00:47:56
It was just the Libby thing, Like when they're leaving the
00:48:05
cliff there and you kind of the camera kind of zooms past Libby
00:48:09
and she's kind of looking almost contemplative, like not happy.
00:48:14
It could be that she's just like kind of like oh, just like
00:48:17
that was intense kind of thing, but then it leads into this
00:48:22
flashback of her in the facility and it's like oh.
00:48:24
That frustrates me because I know that's never talked about
00:48:29
again, Right, Well, I shouldn't say never, it is very briefly,
00:48:34
but it's just like it's just one of those cliffhangers that were
00:48:38
left untouched and they just gave it a very superficial
00:48:42
backstory.
00:48:43
Amanda: Yeah, because again it's like what are the odds?
00:48:45
Kip: Yeah.
00:48:46
Amanda: That all these people and they're like I guess we're
00:48:48
supposed to kind of backfill, like I don't know, this might be
00:48:53
spoilery, but like this idea that, like their paths would
00:48:56
have crossed at some point, like even if it wasn't for this,
00:49:00
like you know, because they're like yeah, I suppose maybe and
00:49:04
maybe that's all it's supposed to be.
00:49:05
And then we're just supposed to look at these as little like
00:49:07
tidbits when we look back on the show of like oh, oh yeah, they
00:49:10
were really important to each other for like many different
00:49:12
reasons and things like that.
00:49:14
But I agree, like it's like again for it to like it gave me
00:49:17
chills and then it's supposed to be this big like revelation and
00:49:21
it's like we never talk about it again and like, to me, like
00:49:24
that stuff bothers, like because you're gonna we've talked about
00:49:26
before you're gonna hear a lot.
00:49:27
If you're watching this for the first time, oh, they don't
00:49:29
answer questions.
00:49:30
They don't answer whatever.
00:49:31
And we had kind of said when we talked about it last time that
00:49:35
like they really do provide a lot of answers, they just might
00:49:38
not hit you over the head with it yeah, like there are some
00:49:41
things that they just don't ever answer well, they do answer
00:49:43
this.
00:49:44
Kip: Do you want to hear the?
00:49:45
Answer yeah so, but again, it's not.
00:49:48
Yeah, it's not hit over the head, but what I think we're
00:49:51
supposed to infer is when desmond's flashback when he
00:49:55
meets libby in the coffee shop and libby provides desmond the
00:50:00
boat for him to do the race around the world she says my
00:50:03
husband died and I was in a very rough place for a while and I
00:50:08
think that's about the gist of it and I think we're supposed to
00:50:10
infer.
00:50:11
I guess that's why she was there , because she was just super
00:50:13
depressed about her husband dying.
00:50:14
And that's about the gist of it and I think we're supposed to
00:50:15
infer.
00:50:15
I guess that's why she was there Cause she was just super
00:50:16
depressed about her husband dying, and that's it though, as
00:50:18
far as I can remember.
00:50:19
So it's like not really an answer.
00:50:21
Amanda: Yeah, but like okay, so fine, we, we know why she was
00:50:25
there.
00:50:25
That, to me, is the least important part of it, though,
00:50:27
right.
00:50:27
What does it mean that like like?
00:50:29
Are we supposed to like?
00:50:31
Does she know, hurley?
00:50:32
Kip: Yeah, so, and I think, like that was later on, they're like
00:50:37
I guess we should try to answer that, because to me they
00:50:39
shouldn't even have included that.
00:50:40
No If that's the reason.
00:50:41
It has nothing to do with Hurley.
00:50:43
Amanda: Yeah, it's like and are we supposed to infer Cause?
00:50:45
Like she's like cause, like you said, she's kind of like at the
00:50:47
end, she's kind of like has this like worried?
00:50:49
Look on her face and it's like is she worried just because I
00:50:52
like, totally fair if it's just that she's worried because
00:50:55
someone she really cares about was just about to end their life
00:50:57
, yeah, but like it does kind of lead into that, like it's like
00:51:00
she's worried like the way they end that conversation between
00:51:03
them.
00:51:03
It's like and leading into that.
00:51:04
It's like it's this like nefarious thing, like she was
00:51:07
there at the same time so she knows more than she's supposed,
00:51:09
or she was affected by him, or like something right, she loves
00:51:14
him now because she saw him there, whatever it might be
00:51:17
Right, but we never get that.
00:51:19
Theresa: Or or does it mean that Dave and Libby are both
00:51:25
figments of his imagination and the whole island is not real?
00:51:28
Kip: Well, exactly, Right Like well, no, it doesn't mean that
00:51:35
no, I know, but it would have been.
00:51:36
Theresa: But that's what people well, actually funny.
00:51:38
Kip: You say that because, like, in reading about this episode,
00:51:41
abc was like we don't want you to do this episode because we
00:51:44
think people are going to think that this answers everything
00:51:48
yeah, yeah they were like the produce or the.
00:51:50
The network was like we don't think this is a good idea and
00:51:53
sure enough, people like took it at the time being like so it is
00:51:56
all just in people's imaginations like I mean, that's
00:51:58
what you could infer from the way that that ended.
00:52:01
Theresa: I mean, if he makes dave up and he's talking to
00:52:04
libya and libya's like no, I'm real, I promise, and then she's
00:52:07
there too, yeah, well then one would suggest, or one would
00:52:12
think.
00:52:12
Amanda: You know, I think how they do it and how like it's
00:52:15
kind of from her perspective when you see her in the facility
00:52:19
, that like we aren't supposed to infer that she's not real
00:52:22
like yeah if anything, I I never took that away from it.
00:52:25
Like what I took away from it, though, was like this idea that,
00:52:27
like what she was, because like she kind of so like that end
00:52:32
little piece with them, like when she kisses him, and she's
00:52:34
like it's all good, et cetera.
00:52:36
And then he's kind of like, oh, we should do that again.
00:52:38
And then she's like we should get out of here and all this
00:52:40
stuff.
00:52:40
And then she's like you know, people can change, or whatever
00:52:43
she's saying to him.
00:52:43
I can't remember.
00:52:44
And then like and yeah, she looks kind of they it more.
00:52:51
That led me to believe that, like, something still isn't
00:52:54
right with her and she can't be trusted on the Island and that,
00:52:58
like, everything she's doing with him right now on the Island
00:53:00
isn't real.
00:53:01
Kip: Yeah, it led me to believe like she's got ulterior motives
00:53:04
and we don't know what it is yet Like, cause she didn't kiss him
00:53:07
again.
00:53:07
I was really no that was weird.
00:53:09
Why didn't you do it?
00:53:10
Let me just give him another kiss and he looked so cute too.
00:53:12
I know I was like man she'd do it again Like so I it just the
00:53:15
whole thing.
00:53:16
Amanda: I was like is she just manipulating him?
00:53:18
Kip: Is she just?
00:53:18
Amanda: like and then to like see that she clearly and not to
00:53:20
say that people who are in those facilities can't be trusted.
00:53:27
Kip: That's not what.
00:53:27
I'm saying it in a way to make you think that, yeah, so I don't
00:53:31
know, it's just a weird way.
00:53:33
Amanda: Yeah, it's a creepy little ending.
00:53:34
We're taking a pretty emotional toll on something that's not
00:53:38
going to pay off in the end.
00:53:40
Kip: Exactly.
00:53:42
Amanda: So don't get too invested in that.
00:53:44
Kip: No, alright, I think we're.
00:53:47
Are we ready for the ye olde character Arancons?
00:53:50
Alright, so at number 16 we have our.
00:53:51
Are we ready for the ye olde character Aaron Collins?
00:53:53
Theresa: All right.
00:53:54
So at number 16, we have our usual Michael, negative 830.
00:53:59
Then we have Charlie, negative 670.
00:54:03
Ana Lucia minus 30.
00:54:05
Then we have everybody else in the positives, starting with
00:54:10
Kate 25.
00:54:11
Des 60.
00:54:12
Walt 240.
00:54:14
Libby 465.
00:54:17
Jack 720.
00:54:19
Sawyer 740.
00:54:21
Claire 780.
00:54:24
Jin 1210.
00:54:26
And then our top five.
00:54:27
We have Echo with 1245.
00:54:30
We have Locke with 1520.
00:54:31
We have Echo with 1245.
00:54:33
We have Locke with 1520.
00:54:34
Saeed with 1555.
00:54:36
San with 1630.
00:54:37
And Hurley, still at the top, with 1715.
00:54:41
Amanda: There is a huge gap between like 700 and 1200.
00:54:46
Theresa: Yeah, yeah, I just noticed that.
00:54:48
Amanda: Who was that?
00:54:48
Again, claire, and.
00:54:49
Theresa: Claire and Jin.
00:54:50
Amanda: Like that is a huge gap.
00:54:55
Theresa: Yeah, I realized that when I was going 720 740 780,
00:54:58
1210, I mean hey, it is what it is.
00:55:00
Amanda: The rankings speak for themselves that's right, yeah, I
00:55:02
just I was like whoa, that is such.
00:55:03
I meant to talk about that last time so my mvp.
00:55:09
Kip: MVP was actually Libby in this episode.
00:55:12
Theresa: Oh yeah, she was great Um.
00:55:13
Kip: my LVP was Locke.
00:55:17
Theresa: Also fair.
00:55:18
Just again manipulation city yeah.
00:55:22
Amanda: And we didn't, did we?
00:55:23
I don't know like.
00:55:23
I know we've already moved on to this.
00:55:25
There's one last thing I have to say.
00:55:26
We didn't really talk about like you did say like the, he's
00:55:29
still getting manipulated by him .
00:55:31
Kip: Oh yeah, we didn't really quite touch on what exactly you
00:55:34
meant by that?
00:55:34
Yeah, we should mention that.
00:55:42
Amanda: Like how.
00:55:43
Kip: Fenris tells him he didn't even push the numbers and
00:55:45
nothing happened.
00:55:45
So, and Locke is just like Locke, just hook line and sinker
00:55:49
, and that's what the Disney Plus or not.
00:55:52
Disney Plus.
00:55:53
Amanda: The synopsis was referring to that's this idea
00:55:55
that he said something that's shaken his faith Because he's
00:55:58
like but they have to mean something.
00:56:02
Kip: Well, I mean also why are you trusting him?
00:56:04
Theresa: I know, he's literally lied about who he is, everything
00:56:09
, how he found who he is.
00:56:12
Kip: He's lied at every turn, and and yet this is the thing
00:56:15
you're gonna believe but, and like he clings to this idea,
00:56:17
like, well, he could have left, but he stayed, like as if that
00:56:21
was somehow impactful and meaningful and ignores all the
00:56:24
reasons why it means nothing exactly oh fuck and hence why
00:56:30
you are the lvp of today's episode.
00:56:33
Yes, it all gets, do you?
00:56:35
Do you have an mvp, lvp amanda?
00:56:38
Amanda: um, I think, yeah, I think libby for sure um is my
00:56:43
mvp.
00:56:44
I think, yeah, I'd probably give lock or jack the lvp.
00:56:48
I just like jack's great to help him with his leg and stuff.
00:56:50
But I just at this point I think like those two are just
00:56:54
like, I think they just I think they need a good old-fashioned
00:56:57
hurley sawyer fight, you know, like to just really air and I
00:57:01
don't I don't condone that usually, but something's got to
00:57:04
break the tension on these two because it's getting like it's
00:57:06
almost like uncomfortable to watch them interact.
00:57:09
Kip: Yeah exactly they need that , or they need a break, like
00:57:12
they got to get out of that hatch one of them for an
00:57:14
extended period of time yeah because it's just getting a
00:57:17
little ridiculous.
00:57:18
Welly, welly, welly.
00:57:22
Let's talk about the episode a bit further.
00:57:25
Are we going to rate it?
00:57:31
Amanda: I would rate it probably .
00:57:33
I think the imdb ratings like are the imdb ratings pretty on
00:57:39
par like I think it's about like an eight ish 8.2 around there.
00:57:42
Um, I do like it better than everybody hates hugo, if we're
00:57:47
gonna.
00:57:47
Not that we usually do a comparison to the episode that
00:57:50
they've been in before, but when it comes to slash rex, I do do.
00:57:53
Like I said, I find it more compelling.
00:57:55
I just so much so that I would like it to be more meaningful,
00:58:00
right, and I just do think that was some like really important
00:58:02
things and I also think like it's kind of not a terrible.
00:58:06
Like Lost doesn't have to like teach everyone a lesson, like
00:58:09
that's not what it's there for, it's entertainment, like teach
00:58:12
everyone a lesson, like that's not what it's there for, it's
00:58:13
entertainment, but it's like it's like it is kind of a good
00:58:14
opportunity to have like really explored some of those deep
00:58:16
issues and to show like the person who's like the jokey,
00:58:19
jovial, fun guy could be the guy right, like that has all of
00:58:25
this like it.
00:58:26
Everyone process is different and is at different journey
00:58:30
points in their journey.
00:58:30
So I just wish that they had done more with hurley.
00:58:33
The libby stuff is really cute and sweet.
00:58:35
Obviously I would like more of the henry stuff, but what we do
00:58:38
get from him is very much on brand of like manipulate,
00:58:42
manipulate, manipulate, and we're just gonna see that that's
00:58:44
gonna keep on rolling um, I'm gonna give it a 7.5.
00:58:52
Theresa: It's not my favorite episode, it's not the worst
00:58:54
episode, it's just didn't really do that much for me.
00:58:59
Kip: Um, yeah, that's yeah okay, I'm gonna give it a seven.
00:59:05
Yeah, it was one of those ones that could have been really
00:59:12
great, I feel, but it just didn't quite hit the mark for
00:59:17
all the reasons we chatted about .
00:59:18
So I'm going to give it a 7 on the lower end of my ratings.
00:59:22
Usually that's fair.
00:59:24
Amanda: There you have it there you have it another episode of
00:59:28
that's Vigilante Lost wow cool new name I'm also having
00:59:36
delusions.
00:59:37
Thank you.
00:59:39
That's another episode of let's Get Lost.
00:59:41
Hopefully my co-workers have listened to, thanks to my board
00:59:44
recommendation.
00:59:48
Even if one of you does, I'll be so happy, but seriously
00:59:53
thanks everyone for listening.
00:59:55
Kip: Can someone else from Amanda's team write it on the
00:59:57
board?
00:59:58
Amanda: Thanks for listening to this week's episode.
01:00:01
Please leave any feedback, any questions, any comments.
01:00:04
We'd love to hear.
01:00:05
You can find us at letsgetlostpod, on Instagram.
01:00:09
On Facebook, we're let's Get Lost and we have a Patreon.
01:00:13
We'd love for you to join and support and get some more of
01:00:15
that kind of background stuff.
01:00:16
A lot of times when we stop talking about things here that
01:00:19
could get a little bit into spoiler territory, we continue
01:00:23
the conversation over there and oh, and don't forget our fan
01:00:27
fiction Kip's about the fuselage and mine about uh, shannon and
01:00:32
saeed oh, I will, yes, I, it's gonna be on there, I kept.
01:00:38
Kip: I keep forgetting to read it out loud I'm really excited
01:00:41
for it all right all right thanks, everybody bye.
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